Author Topic: gun control...  (Read 6987 times)

Offline Hornet33

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gun control...
« Reply #195 on: April 19, 2007, 10:16:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yeager
You asked, I was simply putting fourth some thoughts.  Every person wanting to purchase a firearm should be required to pass a mental health evaluation, and be required to take a training class in firearms safety, and be fingerprinted, but that would trample on all of our rights......


I have a Virginia CCW and I DID have to provide proof of firearms training and get finger printed in order to get it. I don't feel that violated my rights at all. As a law abiding citizen and those are the laws I followed them and got my permit.

However on the issue of having a mental health evaluation done, how are you going to do it? Have a standard set of questions to ask or are you going to let it be left up to some therapist? What if the therapist is part of the anti gun crowd? Anyone who goes to see that person for a gun permit will be rejected because of that persons personal feelings on the matter and then a law abiding citizen will not be able to EVER purchase a firearm because some therapist with an agenda said they are mentaly unstable or something. Yeah that tramples on my rights.

If it's a standard set of questions, well gee how hard is it to lie? You going to hook everyone up to a lie detector next?

The system isn't perfect and it NEVER will be, but to want to toss out a Constitutional RIGHT because every now and then someone goes off the deep end amounts to nothing more than stupidity.
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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« Reply #196 on: April 19, 2007, 11:25:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GtoRA2
You call someone else retarded and you bring up this tired BS?

It's ok freedom is to much for someone like you.  I trust my fellow citizens with guns.

One bad apple does not make us all bad.


Freedom is to much for you to handle it seems. I don't need a gun and this is the true freedom. I don't spend a minute a day thinking how to protect myself, my property or my house. Cuz I'm free from worrying about it.

Why? Partly because I don't have to worry about gun wielding drugged out unemployed scum. The government supports them enough to keep the trouble down - and only a small percentage of them even own guns because you need to see some trouble here to get one. It won't happen at a spur of the moment, in one day or filing a paper.
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Offline Warspawn

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« Reply #197 on: April 20, 2007, 01:11:55 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Freedom is to much for you to handle it seems. I don't need a gun and this is the true freedom.  


Are you serious?  Lol...the only reason you have any freedom is because someone picked up a gun and won it for you.  The only reason you still have it is because someone else went and kept it for you.

I guess if the sheet hits the fan, you'll want someone else to pick up that same weapon and defend your freedom once again.  Whether it's a riot that's threatening to burn down your house or business, a crackhead trying to jack your car, or a nation at war with ours.

Me?  I'm a bit more proactive than that I guess.  But I respect your right to stand down and let those a bit better armed and prepared than you continue to defend your freedom.  If it ever comes down to someone knocking down your door where your family lives, or deciding to do violence where you work, I have little doubt you will have wished you had decided to be a bit more prepared and ready to act in defense of your 'true freedom'.
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Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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gun control...
« Reply #198 on: April 20, 2007, 07:32:22 AM »
Yeager, who is going to pay for these psychiatric evaluations, who is going to do them, and how long is the wait going to be to have one?

Answers:

The gun owners would be forced to pay. Problem: The cost would be outrageous, because of the liability involved. Besides, I already have to pay $500+ for a decent gun, $200 for concealed carry class, $200 total to apply, around $100 for the permit itself, and another fee to renew. Any psychiatrist or psychologist willing to open themselves up to the liability involved is going to charge THOUSANDS of dollars.

No psychiatrist or psychologist is going to be willing to do those evaluations because the liability costs would be prohibitive. Problem: The first time a psychiatrist or psychologist "lets one slip through the cracks" they'll be sued for BILLIONS. Problem: To prevent "letting one slip through the cracks", NO ONE will pass the evaluation, the failure to pass rate will be 90% PLUS. Problem: Now honest sane citizens are prevented from owning a weapon and  their rights under the 2nd Amendment violated, so the courts are flooded, and rightly so, with citizens suing to get their rights back.

The wait for evaluation would be an eternity. Problem: There aren't enough psychologists and psychiatrists to handle the work load, IF any of them were stupid enough to open themselves up to the liability of "letting one slip through the cracks". Problem: The wait for an evaluation would be eternal, preventing honest law abiding sane citizens from purchasing weapons.

Back to the drawing board Yeager, you ain't even close on this one.


The system needs to be improved, it failed. The two girls he "stalked" did not follow through and press charges. They couldn't be forced to, and rightly so. And since no charges were filed he was never tried and found guilty. That part worked. However, the "second offense" should have been a flag. That, combined with having been hospitalized for an evaluation and declared to be a hazard to himself, SHOULD have been enough for him to have been entered into the system as "adjudicated mentally defective", thereby preventing him from legally purchasing a firearm. HOWEVER, that likely would not have prevented him from either getting a firearm or firearms illegally, or making/purchasing some other weapon, possibly a homemade bomb.
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Offline Curval

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gun control...
« Reply #199 on: April 20, 2007, 07:38:47 AM »
It would be interesting if the psyciatric tests involved a search on BBS postings made by the applicants.

All those who have posted that nukes should be dropped on muslim countries and that illegals should be shot etc. wouldn't do so well on that test methinks.
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #200 on: April 20, 2007, 08:45:15 AM »
has anyone here ever seen a shrink that they would consider to be sane?

zombies don't care in any case... rather have an aggressive guy with a gun beside me when the zombies are out than 10 curvals.

lazs

Offline Toad

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« Reply #201 on: April 20, 2007, 08:48:28 AM »
To heck with concealed carry; I think I'll just move to an open carry state. SD is a fully preempted open carry on foot and in vehicle. Plus, they have lots of pheasants.

Time to move!
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #202 on: April 20, 2007, 08:53:22 AM »
I believe that in most cases, concealed carry is more effective.

lazs

Offline Toad

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« Reply #203 on: April 20, 2007, 08:56:26 AM »
Maybe so but in terms of governmental control, I'm thinking I like fully preempted open carry better. I don't need no steenkin' license.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Toad

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« Reply #204 on: April 20, 2007, 09:01:37 AM »
Btw, clear your PM mailbox folders.. in, sent and delete. You're full up again.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Yeager

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« Reply #205 on: April 20, 2007, 09:29:36 AM »
I have a Virginia CCW and I DID have to provide proof of firearms training and get finger printed in order to get it. I don't feel that violated my rights at all. As a law abiding citizen and those are the laws I followed them and got my permit.
====
Perhaps the requirement to purchase/own a handgun should be that you NEED a CCW.  Toad and Mav and you others, the only thing you are saying is that we are going to have to continue "biting the bullet" and having these slaughters of innocents to the "yet to be diagnosed" mentally ill who find it so damned easy to purchase a firearm legally and go wipe dozens of people off the map permanently.  

Those 32 people died in what amounts to an involuntary affirmation of our right to keep and bear arms.  In years past I would have resigningly agreed with this sentiment but I know and you know that there is a way out of this, none of us seem quite able to grasp it, but there is a way.

PS
Toad, no I didnt read it, can you summarize it?

Mav, I can typically go up to two ten line paragraphs.  Study the way lazs communicates for best form.

PSS Need to come up with a way to eliminate these insane shootings guys or like I said upstream, the average american is going to yearn for a constitutional change and it will happen eventually.
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Offline Toad

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« Reply #206 on: April 20, 2007, 09:38:49 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yeager
IToad and Mav and you others, the only thing you are saying is that we are going to have to continue "biting the bullet" and having these slaughters of innocents to the "yet to be diagnosed" mentally ill who find it so damned easy to purchase a firearm legally and go wipe dozens of people off the map permanently.  

 


And you have yet to propose anything that is not simply impossible as a means of stopping these "yet to be diagnosed"mentally ill.

Yeager, you're wishing for pie in the sky. You are not considering the realistic limitations of life in the US. The problems have been pointed out to you, you just choose to ignore them.

Are you going to psychologically screen every single person, a multi hour appointment with a shrink? That's impossible.

Even if you did, someone would slip through the cracks. You know that.

You have no solution except wishing to do better.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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« Reply #207 on: April 20, 2007, 09:44:45 AM »
Actually it seems like the current situation in the US calls for general arming of population. Things have gone out of hand and people have to fight fire with fire.
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #208 on: April 20, 2007, 09:47:19 AM »
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Prediction: 200+ posts on this thread.

Shack.

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #209 on: April 20, 2007, 09:54:07 AM »
Yeager,

Who determines that "NEED" thing? Is it someone determining that another reall.y "needs" a firearm? That is called licensing and is contrary to the concept of a right. Rights are not granted on a "need" basis. Priveledges, like driving where a license is required, and can be revoked, are licensed by the state.

ripley, I 'm still waiting for you to back up your allegations.
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