Author Topic: gun control...  (Read 5980 times)

Offline Bodhi

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gun control...
« Reply #90 on: April 18, 2007, 09:50:01 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
I believe there will not be a need for guns.
More guns to me does not fix a gun control issue. As I stated before, it is not the wild wild west anymore. You guys are just prolonging the status quo with your "pry my cold dead fingers from my gun" mentality.


Eagler, you are more than welcome to keep on believing that, I'd hope you would realise that firearms in the hands of our people are something our founding fathers felt to be critical to the safety of a free society.

Guns are a part of our society.  There are millions and millions of them out there.  If overnight the government somehow managed to enact legislation banning them, I'd be willing to bet 50% - 70% of law abiding citizens would comply.  I'd also bet that 100% of existing criminals would not.  

Overnight, crime would be out of control in this country as the criminals finally get their greatest wish.  A disarmed population.

As for the quote, "They can have my gun when they pry it from my cold, dead hand."   I believe that around 10% - 20% of gun owners feel like this.  It is estimated that 40% - 50% of the population owns a fire arm.  With those numbers, even low balling, 14 million people in the country will refuse to give up fire arms and defend their Right to bear arms wit their life.  What will the government do?  Arm the rest of the citizenry?  

The day the US enacts a gun ban, is the day the US will start a Second Civil War.
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Offline Speed55

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gun control...
« Reply #91 on: April 18, 2007, 10:09:52 AM »
I've been watching the news this morning, and they keep going on about the kinds of stories he wrote, and how they were signs of how troubled and disturbed he was.

The kid wasn't right in the head, plain and simple, and nobody will know why he finally decided to do what he did.

I mean if you go by what people write, then stephen king, as well as george romero are about to flip out any day now.


      Back  to the subject.....

If there's a horde of zombies, a bazooka aimed low will take out there legs, or maybe even a cannon ball,  then any caliber pistol can be used to finish them off with the brain shot.
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Offline Yeager

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gun control...
« Reply #92 on: April 18, 2007, 10:18:10 AM »
Having just read the bios of the deceased at Virginia Tech and having read the thoughts of those left to live life in their tragic absence, I will say this:  As someone who owns firearms and maintains/safeguards the family collection, and  as someone who has enjoyed sport and target shooting my entire life and spent years reloading my own ammo, I am beginning to question my own beliefs regarding firearms rights, availability.  Is there another way out of this cultural mess we seem to have evolved into.  I do not have the answer but I know one thing for certain, our society, our collective being, is not well.  There is a severe sickness that lingers just underneath the surface, it permeates our combined lives.

I dont have much faith that it can be healed.  I fear we are headed for a fall, if not already falling.
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Offline Shamus

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« Reply #93 on: April 18, 2007, 10:26:23 AM »
Well as we have gladly accepted a few minor restrictions on out rights in these "post 9/11" times, it may be time to require psychological exam of all current and future handgun owners.

It shouldn't add that much to the cost of ownership/purchase and lets face it in these "post VM" times we are in a war with mass shootings.  

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Offline john9001

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« Reply #94 on: April 18, 2007, 10:39:06 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yeager
 Is there another way out of this cultural mess we seem to have evolved into.  I do not have the answer but I know one thing for certain, our society, our collective being, is not well.  There is a severe sickness that lingers just underneath the surface, it permeates our combined lives.

I dont have much faith that it can be healed.  I fear we are headed for a fall, if not already falling.


because of one nut, you condem 300 million people?

Offline Yeager

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« Reply #95 on: April 18, 2007, 11:11:46 AM »
one nut?  you think mass murder/suicide by gun has occured only once?

mass murder/suicide by gun will continue to occur and it will intensify as time passes.

If you have a solution to the mass murder/suicide by gun phenomenon then please state it.  I dont have a solution.
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Offline Maverick

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« Reply #96 on: April 18, 2007, 11:15:24 AM »
John,

That pretty much sums up the "anti" argument. Someone misbehaved to the many that have not and will not must lose their own rights.

We've already tried that great experiment with prohibition and saw what the results of that were. I suppose some time in the future we'll see it again. I hope it's after my time.

We have plenty who are deciding that rights are simply too dangerous to have. People abuse them, so in order to have a nice safe world we'll just have to do away with them. It's for your own good of course. I imagine the 2'nd amendment will be the first.

After that people will be saying inflammatory things which lead to disruptions in the public lifestyle. Speech will need to be limited along with peaceable assembly. Too many people in one area causing a ruckus just can't be allowed. They could get hurt so we must not allow that.

Once folks can't get together, a virtual assembly won't be allowed. Those nasty computers in the home allowing folks to look at all kinds of bad things. I mean, everyone KNOWS that rapists and perverts ALL look at pron on the internet, so in order to save the children and women in general we'll have to stop allowing people to access it except in controlled areas. People will be sharing those same inflammatory ideas that they are now prevented in discussing in public. Perhaps the internet should be limited to the Government agencies who have a real need for it. People really don't NEED the internet and the vast majority don't need anything but a word processor at home so a home computer won't be needed either. Something as simple as an old Radio Shack TRS-80 and a printer will be all a kid needs for homework. A restriction to an "online" encyclopedia, or library will suffice for basic research.

Since so many folks die on motorcycles we must stop the senseless slaughter on the roads. No one NEEDS a motorcycle other than possibly some government agency so we'll stop them from being manufactured and run on the roads. Since we're doing so much good we must also stop the waste of resources. Mass transit will replace private ownership of cars.  Unless you can show an approved NEED for a mode of transportation like a farmer or someone involved in an approved job like trucking you don't need to have anything more than an electric car to commute to work or go to the store. By slowing the traffic down we'll stop the senseless slaughter on the roads from excessive speed. One or two manufacturers of an approved design of vehicle will be all that is needed. That will be even easier as there is no right to drive already. Simply remove all the licenses unless you can prove an approved reason to have it. Same for those cars and motorcycles. Just trace the registration and recycle the metal to mass transit. The oil crisis will disappear over night.

Soon there will be peace and quiet in the land. No one will be wasting resources to the planet will return to the pristine vision that gore intended outside his palace.

Think of all the lives that will be saved.

Yep you may think it's far fetched but why? Orwell had it right and we are going right down the path he saw. It's time to really get the space situation going and split the population away. It's way too crowded here now.  :(
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Offline Yeager

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« Reply #97 on: April 18, 2007, 11:24:26 AM »
mav, try to keep it to under a 5 sentence paragraph.  thats just too long to read.
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Offline Maverick

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« Reply #98 on: April 18, 2007, 11:49:42 AM »
Sorry your rights are too much for you to trouble to deal with. At least leave mine alone if you wish to abdicate yours.
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Offline myelo

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gun control...
« Reply #99 on: April 18, 2007, 11:51:58 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Shamus
Well as we have gladly accepted a few minor restrictions on out rights in these "post 9/11" times, it may be time to require psychological exam of all current and future handgun owners.  


There are plenty of data to show that individuals with a certain genetic makeup are about 1000% as likely to commit these types of violent acts. And there's a simple test for that particular marker. Maybe those individuals should have to pass a higher threshold in order to purchase a gun?
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Offline Yeager

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« Reply #100 on: April 18, 2007, 11:58:19 AM »
thats better Mav, thanks.  Is that your solution as well?  I mean it does qualify as a solution but a very weak one as it offers nothing new.  The problems of violence we experience as a culture just continue unabated.
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Offline Shamus

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« Reply #101 on: April 18, 2007, 11:59:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by myelo
There are plenty of data to show that individuals with a certain genetic makeup are about 1000% as likely to commit these types of violent acts. And there's a simple test for that particular marker. Maybe those individuals should have to pass a higher threshold in order to purchase a gun?


There ya go!!!,at one time people with certain skull shapes and bumps on the skull were shown to have proclivity for criminal behavior, now we're getting someplace.

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Offline lasersailor184

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gun control...
« Reply #102 on: April 18, 2007, 12:00:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bodhi
Guns are a part of our society.  There are millions and millions of them out there.  If overnight the government somehow managed to enact legislation banning them, I'd be willing to bet 50% - 70% of law abiding citizens would comply.  I'd also bet that 100% of existing criminals would not.
 


I'd take that bet in a heart beat.  I'd be surprised if 10% of gun owners gave up their guns.
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Offline Bodhi

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« Reply #103 on: April 18, 2007, 12:02:03 PM »
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary security deserve neither liberty nor security and shall lose both."  - Benjamin Franklin

That quote in a nutshell proves to me that our founding fathers knew much more than the politicians who inhabit Washington today.  

Giving up any rights we are guranteed as free people is not an option.  It only ensures that tyranny will once again return to this land.  I will not sit idly by and allow the actions of isolated nut jobs to affect my freedoms as guaranteed to me by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.  It is sad that people died Monday.  Even more sad that it appears this individual has a past history of mental instability including stalking people.

The real problem in America today is accountability.  

Think about it.  Kids act up in class or at home, and parents are told that it is normal and punishment is not allowed.  Drug Dealers do minimal time in prison, yet cause massive amounts of strife in society with the poison they peddle, yet are allowed to walk free.  Gang Bangers and other criminals all do minmal time, even repeat offenders.  People run up massive credit card debt because of poor financial management and file for bankruptcy, effectively getting free from their financial hassles.  An idividual not paying attention walks out into a street and gets hit by a car and sues the driver, winning millions.

This is not going to change until people have to face accountability for their actions.
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Offline Hap

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« Reply #104 on: April 18, 2007, 12:07:50 PM »
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Originally posted by Bodhi This is not going to change until people have to face accountability for their actions. [/B]


Bodhi, I agree with what you say regarding punishment.  It's lacking.  "Accountability" may not be the right word, or perhaps it's the perfect word.

Accountability to what is the problem.  Without authoriative normative values, we're stuck with being held accountable to morals and ethics that at their core are expedient and false rather than principled and true.