Darkness of terrain

[Brooke]

Although I think the look of the new terrain is awesome, I do think the terrain lighting is too dark.

To make sure it wasn't just my setup, I went through and calibrated my monitor (which is a Trinitron, hooked to an nVidia GeForce 6800GS graphics card) by:

1.  Employing the "color return" functionality in the monitor to make sure I'm starting from correct color-temperature calibration.
2.  Setting color temperature to 6500.  (Using 9300 doesn't change the apparent darkness of terrain -- it just makes the color balance shifted more towards blue.   Color temperature is not brightness.)
3.  Setting graphic-card gamma adjust to 1.0.
4.  Setting my monitor brightness with a calibration utility to be correct (via test patterns).
5.  Checking that my display gamma, using a utility, is 2.2 (which is as recommended for monitors).  (Note that display gamma is not the same as the gamma adjust setting in your graphic card, which is an adjustment on top of what the gamma is for your system natively.)
6.  Checking the gamma of individual colors with the utility to find that a graphics-card gamma adjust of 1.0 is correct for my monitor to have a final display gamma of 2.2.

I then went in and played an hour of Aces High with these settings to get used to things but find that the terrain is very dark.

I wonder if the HTC folks who decide on the lighting intensity for the terrain have LCD monitors with display gammas much larger than 2.2 or have their graphics cards set to gamma adjust > 1.0.  If so, what appears normal to them could appear very dark for my system, with its display gamma of 2.2.

The following are some screen shots for my system showing how beautiful the terrain is, but I wonder if most people would need gamma adjust > 1.0 for it not to appear very dark.  The game time was morning, but not sunrise -- it was perhaps 8 or 9 am.















Here is a screen shot from a previous version for comparison (a fight with 68KO from BoB 2004 -- 68KO):

[Brooke]

The utility I am using to judge my overall system gamma is QuickGamma, available at http://www.quickgamma.de/indexen.html .  Also, it talks about how to set up your monitor.

For other test patterns that are useful in setting monitor brightness only (but not gamma adjustment), one I like is:

http://www.photofriday.com/calibrate.php

Here is a site that talks about total system gamma, gamma adjust, color temperature, etc.:

http://www.normankoren.com/makingfineprints1A.html#gammachart

[Ghosth]

Brooke

Well thought out post sir

Yes the lighting has been pulled way back. Have you noticed that even at high noon the sky looks slightly purple, like the sun is just setting?

Everything is much darker than before. The terrain itself at the old light levels would be doable. But combine all that dark green terrain with low light and it feels like your flying in a bat cave. You have to squint at anything more than half a mile away.

From the ground it looks very very good, and I can see that it would be very difficult for planes to see ground vehicles.

[Hajo]

Brooke well put!  I posted a response to Citabrias posts on skinners explaining how I see the picture.  My first response when I saw the terrain from above was "This looks like Air Warrior II!"  I also calibrated my monitor which is a Sony 22in' CRT....they don't make them much better then that.  And to pile on the problems with viewing at the time there was a fog on the ND Isles terrain.  After calibrating monitor and adjusting gamma up to 1.7 in my pov it made the fog brighter and fighting in the air with the lack of depth perception over the bland water and the apparent static green terrain and an apprent lavender colored sky not to mention the contrast in the skins  made my eyes strain to see clearly.

HTC please....make it easier on the Old Codgers eyes

[Drano]

I noticed the darkness of the new BoB terrain also during FSO last night. Seems its not only generally dark but there's also, IMO, too much contrast between the general dark patches and the even darker patches on the ground. (I haven't seen any of the other terrains) Really makes it hard to see stuff. And yes the sky did seem a little more like it might look in late afternoon or early morning than mid day in earlier versions come to think of it.

Generally, I kinda hate it when I enter an arena and its either dawn or dusk for that reason--I just can't see squat. The FSO time of day was 11AM tho.

Oh I know I could "just turn my gamma up" but that's not the point. If I'm having to adjust gamma up or down every time just to see determined by time of day--something's not right.

Drano

P.S. BTW Thanks for the links Brooke. Helpful stuff there.

[xtyger]

Same here. Adjusting the gamma seemed to help, at least temporarily. Seems to me, even after adjusting gamma, a few minutes later things got darker again and I had to readjust.

On the bright side, despite playing the game for over a year now, I finally realized I didn't have to go to the tower to adjust the graphics. Never noticed I could just bring up the clipboard and adjust graphics in flight.

[Brooke]

The graphics should look how the designers intend at gamma adjustment of 1.0.  I wouldn't think a game designer would design the look of the game intending that players use gamma adjust of something other than 1.0.

In AH now, the terrain is too dark.  This can be improved by the players using gamma adjusts greater than 1.0 -- either by using the slider in the game's graphics settings or by using the adjustment in most drivers for graphics cards.

However, if you set your gamma adjust > 1.0, while it will brighten up the landscape, it does cause images to look more and more washed out the larger your gamma adjust is.

So, turning up gamma adjust is a less-than-perfect fix, but it's the only fix available.

I hope HTC turns up the illumination a lot.

[xtyger]

Originally posted by Brooke
[while it will brighten up the landscape, it does cause images to look more and more washed out the larger your gamma adjust is.

It also can make the glare from the sun a bit uncomfortable. I have it now so I'm just able to make out gvs and such, but the sky is really bright- too bright.

[Benny Moore]

Hmmm, where are all of the folks claiming that the lighting is fine?  That's funny, just yesterday they were all over the lighting threads calling the people pointing out the darkness "whiners."

Thanks awfully for taking this issue up, Brooke.  When people with Aces High tags by their names point out problems, the monkeys are less inclined to throw feces.

[Kweassa]

Thanks awfully for taking this issue up, Brooke. When people with Aces High tags by their names point out problems, the monkeys are less inclined to throw feces.

 
 Are you actually implying people respond differently to posts because Brooke is a CM staff?

  Besides, "monkeys throwing feces"?

 Now you're insulting people because they like the current terrains, whereas you do not?

 
 I'm kinda beginning to understand how your mindset works now.

[Benny Moore]

Yes, they do.  The events of the last three days proves this; every thread started by someone who didn't have an Aces High tag was quickly filled with spiteful replies stating or implying that anyone who does not like the darkness bug is a whiner (and also that anyone who does not pay has no right to point out problems, which is pretty foul).  Yet the threads started by the tagged posters have none of those posts.  This is a simple observation.

I'm not insulting the folks who like the current terrain (though I do kindly recommend that they make an appointment with an optometrist).  I'm insulting the monkeys who flame anyone who points out the darkess problem.  I'm also not too happy with the people who say, "It's fine for me, so there's no problem."  Are you on their side?

[Brooke]

I just help with scenarios -- I don't have any affiliation with HTC the company.  I don't want anyone to think that I have any special connections or knowledge regarding AH -- I don't.  Nor do I in any way want to have anything I posted to be considered disparaging.  I hugely enjoy AH and love this place.

I'm just posting what I see regarding illumination, which on my system seems very dark, and did some research into it.

For any folks who find the above useful, I am very pleased to have provide it -- but I'm just speaking for myself as a player.

[trotter]

Pretty much anything that is controversial follows this pattern:

1) person 1 posts something controversial

2) persons 2 and 3 say something like "progress is progress, i like it! "

3) one person says they disagree

4) some other people start an entirely new thread about how they are staying no matter what HTC does and they support HTC no matter what it does (implying that people who disagree are somehow not worthy of the same forums)

[Serenity]

Originally posted by Ghosth
Brooke

Well thought out post sir

Yes the lighting has been pulled way back. Have you noticed that even at high noon the sky looks slightly purple, like the sun is just setting?

Everything is much darker than before. The terrain itself at the old light levels would be doable. But combine all that dark green terrain with low light and it feels like your flying in a bat cave. You have to squint at anything more than half a mile away.

From the ground it looks very very good, and I can see that it would be very difficult for planes to see ground vehicles.

I have the opposite problem. The terrain is incredibly dark, much to dark for my test. However, the sky is always bright white to me. The moon is out, its nightime, and the sky is so bright I cannot look at it.

[715]

There are people that claim it's way too dark (me included) and others that say it's just fine.  I refuse to believe that someone would actually call Brooke's examples above just fine (they appear black on my screen).  I also refuse to believe anyone is lying or just standing up for HTC regardless.  I suspect the new version must make use of some new 3D lighting technique that certain 3D cards/drivers implement correctly (i.e. those owned by people who say things are great, and probably, by HTC developers) or implement incorrectly (i.e. those owned by people that say it's too dark).  There's gotta be some logical reason for such a wide disparity of opinion; i.e. everyone is telling the truth, but there is some technical reason for different results between different computers?