Author Topic: He111 will eventually be needed (Read 5174 times)

macleod01 · « **Reply #15 on:** April 16, 2007, 07:12:09 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Bodhi
1 x 4,409 lb bomb (carried externally) and
1 x 1,102 lb bomb (carried internally) or
8 x 551lb bombs (all carried internally)

Try again.

Bodhi, stop picking fights.

From MY source, probarbly differant and inaccurate, but hey its mine.

'ARMAMENT (P2) 7.92 Rheinmtall MG 15 machine gun on manual mountings in Nosecap, open dorsal positionand ventral gondola; (H3) same, plus fixed forward firing MG 15 or 17, two MG 15's in waist windows and (Usually) 20 mm MG FF cannon in front of Ventral gondola and (Sometimes) fixed rear firing MG 17 in extreme tail; internal bomb load up to 4,410lb (2000kg) in vertical cells, stored nose up; external bomb load (at expense of internal) one 4,410lb (2000kg) on H-3, one or two 1,102 (500kg) on others; later marks carried one or two 1686lb (765kg) torpedoes, Bv 246 glide missiles, Hs 293 rocket missiles, Fritz X radio- controlled glide bombs or one FZG-76 ("V-1") cruise missile.

Thats from my source, so you all can criticize me.

Bodhi · « **Reply #16 on:** April 16, 2007, 07:12:56 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
There's no way you can carry the external racks with internal ord.

This is my biggest problem with you. You become such a "know-it-all" with regards to a subject that you are not accurate on.

The He-111 can carry internal ordinance as well as external ordinance at the same times. The external bomb racks do not cover the bomb bay, they are mounted outboard of the bomb bays.

All sources state this that I have read, or viewed.

I will post a photo for you tomorrow as I do not have a scanner at the house.

macleod01 · « **Reply #17 on:** April 16, 2007, 07:17:10 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Bodhi
This is my biggest problem with you. You become such a "know-it-all" with regards to a subject that you are not accurate on.

ok Ive heard enough.

And you Bodhi of course are the worlds leading authority on He-111's and know every little thing about them! Allow others to post their views and their information without discrediting it immediatly. My source backs up what Krusty says, and although I do not say its the best, its still a source. So maybe the pot should not call the kettle black

Bodhi · « **Reply #18 on:** April 16, 2007, 07:20:35 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by macleod01
ok Ive heard enough.

And you Bodhi of course are the worlds leading authority on He-111's and know every little thing about them! Allow others to post their views and their information without discrediting it immediatly. My source backs up what Krusty says, and although I do not say its the best, its still a source. So maybe the pot should not call the kettle black

Are you his nursemaid now?

I am not an authority, but I am able to cite my sources including photos.

Maybe you should just stay out of this.

macleod01 · « **Reply #19 on:** April 16, 2007, 07:23:01 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Bodhi
Are you his nursemaid now?

I am not an authority, but I am able to cite my sources including photos.

Maybe you should just stay out of this.

and are others not allowed to do the same? I just backed up a fellow flyer who's sources agree with mine. Can i not post this?

Bodhi · « **Reply #20 on:** April 16, 2007, 07:28:53 PM »

It just makes you incorrect as well. But have it your way.

halcyon · « **Reply #21 on:** April 16, 2007, 07:34:02 PM »

Unfortunately everyone picked the B-25.
You'll have to wait another 10 years for another plane, and another 20 for ANOTHER bomber...but who knows....maybe the dudes will blow the next plane choice 10 years from now and choose another medium bomber.

Go figure.

Lusche · « **Reply #22 on:** April 16, 2007, 07:38:27 PM »

After a quick glance into my archive, It seems that there were external racks under the fuselage (= instead of internal load) as well as under the inner wings (that was the thing I had in mind). So I can imagine that it would have been possible to use only the outer racks and thus being able to still use the bombays. Though one caption says "later versions of the He 11 dispensed with their bomb bays and carried their loads externally".

So you may both be right...

coinbird · « **Reply #23 on:** April 16, 2007, 08:37:40 PM »

Woo

i started a aviation nerd fight

Krusty · « **Reply #24 on:** April 16, 2007, 09:50:30 PM »

Bodhi: The bomb bay on the He111 was a rather outdated design. The bomb bay was not centered, as was the B-17s. Instead it had 2 upright racks. The bombs hung nose-up in these vertical racks. There was a passageway built in between the bomb bays -- not just a ramp, a complete passageway. The bombs were offset to both sides of the fuselage, the racks close to the outside walls. The bomb bay doors were spring-loaded, and the bombs would fall out arse-first and flip around (nose down) in the wind stream. Other early war bombers also dropped their bombs this way, including the Ju86 and I believe the Ju88. The doors were not centered. There was one on either side, and the external bomb racks (the ones you carry the big bombs, the torpedos, or the cargo canisters on) are spaced such that they completely obliterate the bomb bays ability to open.

There is a gap of space between the two racks, but that is not where the bomb bay doors are.

Most did do away with internal loads later in the war, because they carried a very small internal load (1000kg, I think?), and they were very vulnerable to enemy fighters. Most carried external ord only, later in the war.

You can read up on it all you want. Calling me a "know-it-all" doesn't change what you'll find.

P.S... you cite 1 possibly erronous source, and have given no photos. So what's this "I'm able to cite sources and give photos"?

You may feel free to read more on the matter, or you may ignore my comments.

Karnak · « **Reply #25 on:** April 16, 2007, 09:50:41 PM »

Ju188A-2 would be a nice addition. Better than the Do217 in my opinion.

Krusty · « **Reply #26 on:** April 16, 2007, 09:54:45 PM »

This image shows a cutaway of a He111F. Note that the internal structure aft of the cockpit changed very little (only the removal of the dustbin gun). It removes the closest bomb rack and shows the opposite one.

Here you see the inside. The racks have been removed, and you can see the position they would have on the aircraft fuselage below.

Note that the external bomb racks, the same rack used for either external bombs, torpedos, or external cargo canisters, cover these spots. There is no bomb bay in the middle. There is no door.

Installing the external bomb racks covers the bomb bay areas almost entirely.

Lusche · « **Reply #27 on:** April 16, 2007, 10:53:03 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty

Installing the external bomb racks covers the bomb bay areas almost entirely.

Installing the fuselage racks. Yes.
But HEs did have underwing hardpoints too, where rack could be installed. These would not block the bomb bay doors, though I don't know yet if this variant was used much...

Lusche · « **Reply #28 on:** April 16, 2007, 11:06:23 PM »

Here we see external bombs mounted under the fuselage:

And here you can see the inner wing hardpoint:

Krusty · « **Reply #29 on:** April 16, 2007, 11:29:58 PM »

I think you've looked at the photo wrong, Lusche.

See the engine on one side, and the tip of the other engine on the other? That's mounted under the fuselage, between both engines.

Also note it says "asymmetrical"? Normally there'd be two of those mounted right over the bomb bay doors, but there's only 1 in that photo.

EDIT: P.S. That's the same bomb rack I was referencing above. I've even seen it on 3D models and scale model kits. It's definitely under the fuselage.