Defense Against Mass Shooters

[cpxxx]

The best defence is that situation was the one described by the student interviewed by Irish TV. He sounded more than a little traumatised. They were in a classroom and heard bangs, eventually figured they were shots and barricaded the door. They heard the creep try to get in but he couldn't and he moved on. Imagine how you would feel in that situation?

I think several people here have hit the nail on the head. Unless you are trained and primed and ready most people barely recognise a bad situation until it's too late. I know from the experience of walking straight into an armed robbery. By the time my feeble brain figured out what was going on they were in the car and gone. This in spite of one of the robbers seeing me as a threat and shouting 'Don't do it' as he ran past.

Even if you were carrying a weapon, you are already way behind the killer in terms of readiness and actual willingness to kill.

It's a horrible situation.

[Masherbrum]

I just don't understand how this topic can be discussed because there is no "patent, standard answer".   Every case is "going to be different than the other" and frankly, when 31 students get shot like this, it won't bring them back.

I have the opportunity to get a CCW here in Michigan for $20 class fee, instead of $200.    F**k it, I'm getting it.

[lasersailor184]

I was actually thinking about this the other day.  I own guns.  But I currently have none of them up here at school with me.  My reasoning was that I had no need for them.  There's no target shooting nearby, the riflery team was filled with giant sweetheart-turds, and I felt relatively safe, considering I'm a somewhat built tall guy.

I'm pretty sure my school doesn't allow CCW, but I'd say i'm only 50% sure.

[AquaShrimp]

Firearms are not allowed at any university.  Theres plenty of stickers on the doors at the university of louisville that say "Firearms are prohibited".

[Hornet33]

The tragic part concerning CCW's on college campus's (Virginia Tech is a prime excample) is that Virginia State law doesn't address the issue. Virginia Tech is a privately funded college, and the state law prohibiting carrying a weapon on state property doesn't apply.

The ban on weapons on campus there is a campus rule, not a law. You CANNOT be arrested for carrying a weapon on campus there with a valid permit, but the school can administer punishment or expel a student for "breaking" the rules even though he was abiding by state law.

One student of Virginia Tech is already fighting that rule from last year when he was punished for legally carrying a conceled weapon on campus. He wasn't arrested because he broke no laws. His case has to deal with campus authorities over riding state law with no legal grounds.

I'm not sure what they would be able to do to a visitor that wasn't enrolled there if they were legally carrying a weapon. I imagine the only thing they could do is ask that person to leave, but they would have no legal ground to prosecute.

Now I'm not saying that if students were allowed to carry on campus if this tradgedy would or would not have happened anyway, but you have to wonder.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Dago
People will generally not attack or swarm an armed shooter unless they are within arms reach at the beginning.

Or if they know they are going to die regardless what action they take, like those on United Flight 93 that decided to fight back.


ack-ack

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Shuffler
In one classroom.... no one got out alive. A tragedy no matter how you look at it.

4 of the students survived from that classroom from the latest reports.

ack-ack

[68Hawk]

Universities are either private property or government property, so they have a right to deny you carry privileges when you are on that property.  While I believe guns should have no place in schools, schools are obviously not sequestered from society.

What would I do if this horrible crap went down while I was sitting in class?  
???  

Damn, I honestly don't know.  I'd have to hope to be lucky.  I carry a mechanical pencil with a metal tip (especially on airplanes), but the limitations of that are obvious.  I have my keys on a short chain with a clip, attached to my belt and easily at hand, but that's not gonna reach much farther.  I could throw a chair, a book, maybe even a laptop to try to distract, but that's only possible with lots of luck anyway.  Getting the drop on the gunman somehow is the only possible way, without better armament.  

Did anyone see the idiot who proposed bullet proof textbooks as a solution to school violence?

My heart goes out to every one that was affected by this horrible tragedy.  I hope for their sake that clarity can be made of this situation.  A shooting happened at my other school, but nothing like this.  I guess I just don't know what else to say.  

Peace be to them.

[FrodeMk3]

Halo, In response to your original post:It's still to soon after this tragedy to be able to say what should or should not have been done. Skuzzy mentioned in another thread that this tragedy was still too fresh to start a political argument,(of which I'm sure there will be many).

All we can really do at this time is watch, listen, wait, and pray for those affected.

[tedrbr]

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Or if they know they are going to die regardless what action they take, like those on United Flight 93 that decided to fight back.

But, that was not an immediate response reaction.  
Those people on Flight 93 had time to consider what was happening.  They had some phone contact with people on the ground and some idea of what was happening elsewhere.  They had time to discuss this amongst themselves and make the decision to rush the cockpit.

Not the same as a gunman entering the room and opening fire.  

From one report, at least one classroom had the presence of mind to block their classroom's doors when they heard gunfire, and another group locked themselves in a teacher's office.

I'm betting many talking heads will bring up Flight 93 in the days coming, but it really does not compare to this situation.

[tedrbr]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
[B
I'm pretty sure my school doesn't allow CCW, but I'd say i'm only 50% sure. [/B]

If not prevented by state law, I'm betting school policy prohibits it and you could be expelled for having one.  Just seems to be a standard policy.

My college has pretty standard rules on this, the only place for my weapon is IN my locked vehicle while on the campus.  That is the only situation that does not run afoul of school policies or state laws concerning my CCW --- not specified in writing by the rules (they would never put anything like that in print), but when you read the dos and don't (and between the lines), I'm covered.

Some schools go so far to prohibit guns anywhere on school property, including private vehicles.  Could still get you expelled, even though such a policy may be in conflict with state laws.  But, who's likely to have the better lawyer?

[Pooh21]

Originally posted by cpxxx

Even if you were carrying a weapon, you are already way behind the killer in terms of readiness and actual willingness to kill.

 

About 9 years ago I was going on vacation. The wife was already sitting in the car and she forgot something so I went to retrieve it. Meanwhile there was a domestic dispute going on all morning. SO as I walk into the apartment courtyard I notices this spluttering guy walking towards me. Pointing back and yelling at a middleaged couple and their 20something daughter.  He is breathing hard and spraying spittle all over the front of his shirt as I ntice his pointing finger is huge and black. About to do a little pointing and laughing myself at this circus freaks sideshow finger, my mind clicks into place that this fool has a fricken desert eagle. I calmly walk by go up to my apartment and am seriously back to my front door with my .12gauge loaded with 3in 00 buck and slugs faster then I thought possible. Meanwhile crazyfreak has walked into the parking lot, where my car is, with my wife in and he is standing facing the car and wheezing like a madman. Seriously this donkey braying he was doing was starting to piss me off and his thumb was fondling the hammer of his pistol. The only thing that kept me from taking a shot was my wife was just a carlength away from him and 20yards who knows about a possible stray buckshot. Seriously if I had my 98k that day I would have shot him as he in my mind was a threat. all he had to was raise his gun maybe belt high and he would have been able to shoot my wife. PLus he was my size 6ft+ 200lbs and he was pointing a gun at a middle aged couple and a girl not 3 minutes earlier. Sometimes I wonder to this day what kind of trouble that madman is up to and probably should have stopped it then and there.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by tedrbr
But, that was not an immediate response reaction.  
Those people on Flight 93 had time to consider what was happening.  They had some phone contact with people on the ground and some idea of what was happening elsewhere.  They had time to discuss this amongst themselves and make the decision to rush the cockpit.

Not the same as a gunman entering the room and opening fire.  

From one report, at least one classroom had the presence of mind to block their classroom's doors when they heard gunfire, and another group locked themselves in a teacher's office.

I'm betting many talking heads will bring up Flight 93 in the days coming, but it really does not compare to this situation.

I wasn't saying they should have done what the passengers of United Flight 93 had done.  I was just using them as an example when there is little choice...you're dead if you don't do anything, and you'll most likely die even if you do but it's better than doing nothing.

ack-ack

[Gunthr]

the very first defense is our minds.  our mental preparation for this kind of incident can make the diff in your own personal survival in a situation like this.

If you are unarmed and are far enough away from the action to run, get away from the threat.  if you can't run and the shooter is near at hand and you think have a realistic chance of killing or incapacitating the shooter, go for it.  Failing that, seek cover first, or concealment second if you have no other option.  

pre-think this kind of thing.  you don't have to be some kind of crazy survivalist extrahunk about it, just give it a little thought.  this should be taught in schools.

[tedrbr]

Originally posted by Gunthr
pre-think this kind of thing.  you don't have to be some kind of crazy survivalist extrahunk about it, just give it a little thought.  this should be taught in schools.

Apparently you are unfamiliar with the current state of American education system.  Survival?  Violence, even in self defense?  Potentially violating the rights of the mad gunman in your midsts?  Would never get funded.