Author Topic: Perk the M4  (Read 1784 times)

Offline AApache

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Perk the M4
« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2007, 10:25:51 AM »
I second that notion brother.The M4 i thought had very weak armour and I find myself getting 2 or 3 side direct hits and nothing .Only to watch him turn turret and plaster my turret in one shot .:lol Maybe I just suck:O
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Offline BBBB

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« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2007, 10:49:52 AM »
I think what a lot of you guys are failing to see is the battle field has changed with the M4 on it. The days of sitting in one spot and hammering away in your tiger are done. Just like the days of frontal assault's in tanks are over with.
  Tank battles in AH have become more maneuverable. You are starting to see more guys shooting on the move. You are starting to see the use of smoke more and more. There is more communication going on between tankers. Guys calling out ranges, positions..ect. In the end tank warfare has become more realistic.
  My advice would be to learn to adapt. I have killed tigers with T-34s, it is all about shooting, moving and communicating. If your guys operate as a unit it is very easy to out flank the bad guy and once you are on the flanks of any tank in AH now, it is a dead tank. Perking a tank it's the answer. More so a tank that history has shown was big on numbers. The answer is with the players, working together. Just my two cents.

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Offline Tigger29

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« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2007, 02:43:27 PM »
Think about it.. one reason the K/D ration of the tiger is much higher than anything else is because usually only experienced GV'ers take them out.  Mostly because they are perked, but partly because the visibility isn't so hot...

Because better players tend to use the tiger, of course they're going to have a high K/D ratio.

As far as the M4.. I can hostly say I love it... it's a great tank and it feels good to be able to take out a Tiger from time to time.. but they really aren't all that indestructible.  I've been killed with one hit plenty of times while driving one.

Just my .02

Offline Brenjen

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« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2007, 04:52:11 PM »
There is a problem with the GV's right now. I had a Tiger sitting at our base knocking us out with one shot in our Tigers over & over & over. I hit his Tiger at about 400 yards which is point blank range; broadside & it was a good hit just over the tracks but under the skirt & just under the turret slightly to the rear. Perfect. It didn't do a thing. He wheeled, stopped & fired. By this time I had reloaded & fired too; I died. I P.M.'d him to inquire if my last shot had at least knocked out his turret since I saw the round impact next to the gun on his turret....Nope. He was fine.

 This happens but I have to say there is something up. And I also agree with Humble, a FF could not stand toe to toe with a Tiger & survive. Not in open field combat & at ranges over 1,000 yards. The Jumbo fared better because of the thicker armor but was much slower. The Pershing was a Tiger killer & could stand it's ground with a King Tiger as well. The Pershing was a late war rarity & would likely never make it into AH, but the Panther on the other hand.......

Edit: about the perking of rides; I thought it was a way to reflect the numbers of certain weapons deployed as well as it's ability to kill. Sort of a combination thing; like I would think if the Pershing were added it would be heavily perked to reflect it's extremely rare appearance on the battlefield & it's deadliness.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2007, 04:55:49 PM by Brenjen »

Offline VansCrew1

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« Reply #34 on: April 24, 2007, 05:18:47 PM »
the M4 has weak armor but the gun's not bad on it' stop crying over the M4 tigers are cheaper now,get over your self if you get killed by an M4 in a tigers.

my 2cents if you dont like it i dont care.


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Offline Brenjen

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« Reply #35 on: April 24, 2007, 06:52:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by VansCrew1
the M4 has weak armor but the gun's not bad on it' stop crying over the M4 tigers are cheaper now,get over your self if you get killed by an M4 in a tigers.

my 2cents if you dont like it i dont care.


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 Who are you referring to?

Offline humble

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« Reply #36 on: April 24, 2007, 08:51:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by VansCrew1
the M4 has weak armor but the gun's not bad on it' stop crying over the M4 tigers are cheaper now,get over your self if you get killed by an M4 in a tigers.

my 2cents if you dont like it i dont care.


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Actually the armor on the sherman is superior to the armor on the PzIV

PzIV
M4A4

The sherman had thicker armor (with better sloping) on side & rear for both hull & turret. The PzIV had thicker armor on the tank body (~80mm to 50mm) but with much worse sloping. The sherman turret was both thicker and better sloped in front. So a sherman had better overall armor, better "hull down" armor and a significant advantage in "slope" leading to alot more richochets.....

The Sherman was more then capable of handling the PzIV's (easy 8)

The Easy 8's armor is actually much better then the firefly (almost all built on the M4A4 linked above). The easy 8 had thicker even better sloped armor (up to 108mm)...combined with the M1A1 76.2mm gun it will own PzIV's and give tigers something to think about. Tank rounds are susceptable to both slope (richochet) and thickness {round literally disintagrates before it penetrates}...while the T-34 is best known the sherman sloping was actually modeled after the T-34 (same as the Panther).

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Offline Charge

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« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2007, 03:54:28 AM »
Quote:

"Certainly the US had the expertise and facilities to produce
cast AFV hulls and turrets. As another poster detailed, most of the
many M4s we produced had cast turrets, and a majority had cast
hulls. Castings, though, have certain inherent disadvantages. No
matter how metallurgically sophisticated a nation is, the physics
dictates that grain orientation cannot be controlled, and grain growth
is mostly uncontrollable, in large castings.  Thus even the most
elegant tool steel alloys are not particularly strong as raw castings,
without work hardening to make a fine grain structure. Casting's main
advantages, once the tooling is built, are production rate and lower
(not higher!) technological requirements. A casting
facility--especially one that works with simple alloys--can be not
much more than a big building, an overhead crane and a furnace."

"Rolled plate, on the other hand, may not be perfect, but it can offer
fairly good and consistent grain size, work hardening, and especially
grain orientation.  Welding of fabricated plate sections, if done
properly, does not compromise these advantages. The gains from plate's
metallurgical advantages more than offset the small trigonometric
differences in effective thickness from small angles of incidence of
shell impact against angled sections of cast hulls and
turrets. Sophisticated heat treating can be combined with rolling to
make very strong steel. But good rolled plate requires a very, very
expensive and complicated mill. There are not many in the world. I
believe the reason the Russians did not make tanks of plate is that
they simply did not have the mill capability."


http://yarchive.net/mil/ww2_tank_armor.html

Interesting reading.

-C+
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Offline SKurj

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« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2007, 06:41:30 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Willfly
Well, why not? It makes total sense to perk it based on production rate because if someone has better equipment in actual war, you just gotta deal with it. It's not like the Geneva conventions or something states you must use better equipment sparingly. War is not a game.


Basically perks are assigned based on the vehicles ability to unbalance the arena...     Lets say uber weapon comes along that was built in huge numbers that has the ability to kill anything in the game quite easily...  If you base perks on numbers produced... everyone and their mother will be using one and you won't see anything else on the battlefield.   Perk the thing based on its ability and you will see fewer of them hopefully bringing more balance to the game...

Offline humble

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« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2007, 09:00:37 AM »
Interesting Reading......

Same source as above....

If by griddling you mean marking by filing, the answer is that the harder
types of armor will resist files and the softer types will not.  US WWII
armor was of the softer type, about 250 BHN, while most other nations
used harder steel.  Files are usually case hardened high carbon steel,
and should cut armor up to 375 BHN or so.  Russian tank armor was at
400-450 BHN during the later stages of the war; the 1941 and '42 KV was
around 250.  German armor started the war very hard, then lost hardness
as thickness and production quantities increased.  The Germans used
face-hardened armor at first, with file-resisting hardness, then dropped
the face hardening and relied on the core hardness of 250-300 BHN,
similar to US tank armor.  Late-war German armor on the front of a
Jagdpanther was measured at about 200 BHN, as was Hetzer side armor.  The
Elefants were measured in the low 200's after capture by the Russians, as
early as 1943.  These are the softest examples of German armor I can
recall.  I would expect easy filing on them, and maybe easy griddling,
too.

Generally, hard armor is expected to break up attacking projectiles,
which it can do when it is thicker than the diameter of the projectile.
Soft armor is best at absorbing projectile impact through slower
deceleration.  The switch from the earlier face-hardened or
hard-all-the-way-through steel came about when the major combatants
introduced penetrating caps on their ammo, which protected against
shatter when hitting hard surfaces.  These caps were so effective that
the FH armor resisted less well than softer homogeneous armor.

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Offline Brenjen

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« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2007, 10:48:08 AM »
Armor technology is always a fun read. I remember the first time I read about Zimmeret paste it was like a revelation, I had always wondered what that stuff was. We need a skin that incorporates it even though it would have no use in this game it would be cool eye candy.

 The differing types of metal, milling techniques accompanied by different types of shot etc. it really gets confusing after a while. One thing you never really hear much about; WWII era Japanese armor....maybe we should start howling for some of that so we can get some M-8 & Stuart duels going in the early war arena lol

Offline OOZ662

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« Reply #41 on: April 25, 2007, 11:14:39 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Brenjen
One thing you never really hear much about; WWII era Japanese armor....maybe we should start howling for some of that so we can get some M-8 & Stuart duels going in the early war arena lol


Hell, my favorite thing to kill Shermans and Panzers with right now is the M8. I racked up over thirteen kills in it last night. Makes for beautiful perk hauls. :D
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Offline VansCrew1

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« Reply #42 on: April 25, 2007, 11:51:14 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Brenjen
Who are you referring to?



in general,on 200 people cry that a M4 killed my tiger 1 shot, if you see some one tyep that why would you go out vs M4's in a tiger,it's just people think their tigers are better then that persons.
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Offline VansCrew1

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« Reply #43 on: April 25, 2007, 11:53:03 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by humble
Actually the armor on the sherman is superior to the armor on the PzIV

PzIV
M4A4

The sherman had thicker armor (with better sloping) on side & rear for both hull & turret. The PzIV had thicker armor on the tank body (~80mm to 50mm) but with much worse sloping. The sherman turret was both thicker and better sloped in front. So a sherman had better overall armor, better "hull down" armor and a significant advantage in "slope" leading to alot more richochets.....

The Sherman was more then capable of handling the PzIV's (easy 8)

The Easy 8's armor is actually much better then the firefly (almost all built on the M4A4 linked above). The easy 8 had thicker even better sloped armor (up to 108mm)...combined with the M1A1 76.2mm gun it will own PzIV's and give tigers something to think about. Tank rounds are susceptable to both slope (richochet) and thickness {round literally disintagrates before it penetrates}...while the T-34 is best known the sherman sloping was actually modeled after the T-34 (same as the Panther).


this may be true but the americans called it the "Ronsin" because just like the lighter,it would go up in flams with one hit.


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Offline SKurj

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« Reply #44 on: April 25, 2007, 12:01:59 PM »
The going up in flames with one hit was because the ammo wasn't protected so hot shrapnel could set it off.  Later in the war this issue was solved and no longer was such a problem.