Perk the M4

[AAolds]

After spending a good deal of time in and fighting against the M4, I would like to suggest that it be perked or reworked to be more historically accurate.  The M4 regularly kills tigers in 1 shot head on, while not dying after being shot directly by a Tiger. M4s were not known for their armored protection.   The panzer, which is supposed to have thicker armor than the M4, can be killed by a Hurricane IId, while the M4 in my experience can take 40 mm shots all day.  Overall, the Tiger is no longer worth uppin when an M4 can be upped at no cost and is in many ways now a superior tank to the Tiger.  

What are others experiences with the M4?

I like the M4, but I think its a bit much as it is currently set up.

[Larry]

Originally posted by Pyro
The Tiger's perk value did go down by 40% as soon as the new version was out.

I expect that the Firefly will become a low level perk.  I would have introduced it that way if it came out with the 75mm and 76mm Shermans but this is all we had.

I've been looking into reports about how tough Shermans and I don't see it.  I've done a lot of different armor tests and have not found anything to make me think this is a tough tank to kill.[/i]


Also the Shermans turret is rounded and thicker then the panzer thus 40mms don't do as much damage.

[BaldEagl]

Current arena stats for vehicles this camp show Sherman's at 1.15 K/D and Tigers at 6+ K/D.  By comparison Panzers are in the 0.9 range and T-34's are in the 0.6-0.7 range.  Numbers may not be exact but close as I was just looking at them last night.

Also, as I've discovered, the Sherman is an easy kill for an attack fighter with ord.  The Tiger is not.

[Lusche]

Originally posted by BaldEagl
Current arena stats for vehicles this camp show Sherman's at 1.15 K/D and Tigers at 6+ K/D.  By comparison Panzers are in the 0.9 range and T-34's are in the 0.6-0.7 range.  

The Sherman was introduced in the middle of current tour, so the  the Tiger K/D stats are not very significant yet. Most kills in Tiger were achieved before the update.

Current Tiger K/D is 4.8, which is considerable lower than the ususal 6+ range. But let's wait till the stats reset at the beginning of next tour before drawing conclusions.

Interestingly, the Sherman VC was introduced 7 days ago, but has already achieved 52000 kills. Compare that to 18 days of Panzer, Tiger & T34 with 73000, 20000 and 6200 respectively...

[EagleDNY]

The Sherman is by no means invulnerable - I've killed them in Panzers and M8s.  As for the high kill numbers of the Sherman in the few days since its release, you can attribute that to everybody trying it out (and killing each other in it), not to it being some kind of Uber-ride.  

It's got some nice features, and that gun is definitely a killer - however catch it down low with a 75mm shell and it blows up quite nicely.  A load of 37mm up the tailpipe killed it pretty effectively as well.

EagleDNY
$.02

[Lusche]

Originally posted by EagleDNY
As for the high kill numbers of the Sherman in the few days since its release, you can attribute that to everybody trying it out (and killing each other in it), not to it being some kind of Uber-ride.  
$.02

That's true. Of course did everybody try it, so we have a lot of kills in a short time. But: While the Sherman is about as almost easy to kill as a Panzer IV from a Tiger's point of view, it's Tiger-popping  gun makes  the difference.
The Sherman can get a kill on a Tiger quite easy, so if the Firefly stays unperked, I guess it will be used far more often than the Panzer in future.


Current K/D:
Sherman vs Panzer  1.6
Tiger vs Sherman: 1.7
Tiger vs Panzer: 8.1

[Brenjen]

I was killed with one shot each time I took up a FF, during those sorties I killed at least one of just about everything but a jeep. I killed one Tiger but it was at close range...say about 400 - 600 yards broadside; panzer would have killed it with the same shot.

 All my other kills were equally as one sided but, I fired first & accurately. The only vehicle I hit with the 17pndr that didn't die out-right was a T-34, close range & at a severe angle; but I still knocked out his engine. The armor on the Sherman, including the Firefly was one of the thinnest of all the medium tanks in WWII, the Sherman Jumbo was the one with thicker armor & it was considerably slower to match.

 What I have seen is the 17pndr is a very impressive killer & the Sherman dies if hit. I haven't taken up a Tiger yet, but according to History the 17pndr of the FF shouldn't penetrate as well at distances over 1,000 yards straight into the front glacis of the Tiger; yet the Tiger should kill the Sherman at any range with one shot. So head to head over 1,000 yards the Sherman should die than 9 out of 10 times; if not more like 19 out of 20.

[Ack-Ack]

Some Rookie a few days ago had no troubles killing my Firefly in one shot with his Tiger.  I had another Firefly die to an IL2's guns.


ack-ack

[BaldEagl]

I lost a Tiger to a Sherman tonight but he got about six hits on me before he finally got me.  We were facing one another at moderate distance the whole time and I got at least a couple of hits on him too without taking him out but I think my hits were both low.  Regardless, it wasn't a one hit kill for either of us.

[VansCrew1]

<-----owns tigers in my M4

[tedrbr]

Had one incident with a Sherman that just would not die (or be tracked, or take damage) to cannon fire from many planes... IL-2's Huri-D's and such.   Film was sent in in case there was a problem with the damage model.   If you notice things like that in a new addition, or after a revision to the game, film it and send it in with what ever details you can provide (not suspicions, not accusations, ....details).  

For the most part, from the air, the best luck I've had is to track the M4, and leave it.  Occasionally scout for any M3's or jeeps that may try to run sups to it.   So far that seems the best way to handle it until you get ord on site.  Track it and leave it to others to finish off when they can.

As for on the gorund, I'll have to leave that to others.  I used 3 new rounds from a T-34 to kill 1 Sherman in TT at close range, but that's the only real problem I had with one, and the local lag may have had something to do with that.

[whiteman]

i tracked a sherman the other day fairly easy with a flak, cought him by surprise. he eventualy got me while i was busting up the town.

[VansCrew1]

<--killed AAolds with a sherman 1 shot last night  

[hubsonfire]

I want one of these sooper shermanz too. I'm getting popped on the first hit just like everyone else.

[Husky01]

My Sherman takes 1 hit or mabey 2 and gos BOOM