Author Topic: One 4 the learners (Read 1937 times)

TinmanX · « **Reply #45 on:** April 21, 2007, 08:02:38 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kermit de frog
My last post still stands.

... is still invalid. If both do Immlemans then vertical scissors occurs. For what you want to occur there would have to be extension of at least d500 prior to Immleman, there is no way two planes could get guns on each other without extension and that did not occur in the original situation LYNX presented us with. Take your hijack somewhere else.

uptown · « **Reply #46 on:** April 22, 2007, 03:49:44 AM »

the spit should do a alt F4 manuver

LYNX · « **Reply #47 on:** April 22, 2007, 06:59:36 AM »

OK back on topic lads a quick AAR.

In opening photo I had just zoomed two cons low off picture and was extending out when I was suddenly (lack of SA) engaged by the con on screen. I thought it appropriate to Immelman as I hadn't had time to guestimate the cons "E" state which I had mistakenly taken to be a lot greater than it was. Had I had have known I probably would have done as Stang said....hindsight.

Once the con started to climb after blowing "E" in that flat turn I started to lay out the "Rope" but the con turned away (2nd picture) proving his expended "Energy". At this point I expected the con to run away, away from me or dive out underneath me. In any case the con would want his speed "Energy" back.

In the last picture we see the con stay in the fight zone (thank you very much

)and pull a loose "low yo yo". The con is obviously inexperienced and desperate to stay in the fight. That YoYo although gaining him some "E" sealed his fate.

If we have any learners following this thread you gotta check out Murdr links...very handy info.

Do any others have good links they could share and hopefully give some of our learners a leg up ?

Furball · « **Reply #48 on:** April 22, 2007, 07:41:42 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by storch
tired of the pink ones?

Oh dear... Truekill just invited me into your squad

uptown · « **Reply #49 on:** April 22, 2007, 10:36:29 AM »

Awesome thread Lynx

I've been in the game for over a year now and am always looking to improve my meager skills. Thank you sir <>

uptown · « **Reply #50 on:** April 22, 2007, 10:47:36 AM »

and thank you Murdr, those links are just what I've been looking for.
But what is a chantell? And can I see it in a diagram? Explain why, and when it's used please.

storch · « **Reply #51 on:** April 22, 2007, 11:17:20 AM »

good heavens miss yakamoto, you're beautiful.

Murdr · « **Reply #52 on:** April 22, 2007, 11:22:27 AM »

Hi uptown. I have not gotten to a proper write-up for the trainers site on that yet, BUT, I pretty much have already written it in this thread Vertical turns. Mace's contributions to the thread are also invaluable. There is a rudimentry demonstration film of the maneuvers also.

VansCrew1 · « **Reply #53 on:** April 22, 2007, 11:35:36 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Murdr
A chandell is also a viable option. Schatzi and I discuss this as sort of a bonus in the merges.ahf film contained in the second page I just linked to.

what is a chandell,i cant find it.

~~~VansCrew~~~

Murdr · « **Reply #54 on:** April 22, 2007, 11:57:17 AM »

Just noticed the typo, sorry...It's "chandelle"

I just found a diagram of an immelman vs chandelle I had.

This is the link to the film with Schatzi and I merges.ahf

And this is the link to the "vertical turns" film yopitchdel.ahf

And here is the Chandelle post from the vertical turns thread....

Quote

Originally posted by Murdr
Chandelle as mentioned earlier is a maxium performance climbing 180 degree turn. Again, it is not an off angle immelman, or a bank and pull back on the stick. Through the course of the turn, you are adjusting the to maintain your bank angle. It is most effective during high E maneuvering.

It is on par with an immelman for turn around time, but does not match the immelman in energy efficency. Referring back to the previous previous ACM film study you could substitute a chandelle for an immelman, and expect similar results.

Where you are most likely to see this is as an opening post merge turn. Not only can it match an immelman in turn around time creating an effective tie, but it naturally creates a positional advantage for a second merge. A chandelle can take place with less altitude gain than an immelman. So in that turn match up, it will be "under" the subsequent merge.

While it does make for an awkward 2nd merge for an opponent who does an immelman, it is not without its drawbacks. It loses more E during the reversal than an immelman. If the opponent can manage the next reversal without getting shot, they should have the upperhand with an energy advantage from that point on.

storch · « **Reply #55 on:** April 22, 2007, 12:03:26 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by VansCrew1
what is a chandell,i cant find it.

~~~VansCrew~~~

~~a chandell is a climbing turn with a bit of a roll to either side.~~

LYNX · « **Reply #56 on:** April 22, 2007, 09:37:59 PM »

One way of looking at a Chandell is a spiral climb.

storch · « **Reply #57 on:** April 22, 2007, 09:50:43 PM »

except you don't do a full 360

LYNX · « **Reply #58 on:** April 22, 2007, 09:58:48 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by uptown
Awesome thread Lynx I've been in the game for over a year now and am always looking to improve my meager skills. Thank you sir <>

Thank you for your comments.

If we could just weed out the HO freaks and get back to business

Gotta say Murdr links are very much worth following. Anyone wishing to improve will gain valued info there.

Just keep in mind these maneuvers are not to be strictly adhered to. Your not in an air show your fighting to gain victory. If the maneuver is a little sloppy so be it just make sure the principle of the maneuver is followed.

TinmanX · « **Reply #59 on:** April 22, 2007, 10:54:56 PM »

Still waiting for my points.