Author Topic: Fw 190A vs P-47D diving from 25,000 ft to deck.  (Read 13972 times)

Offline 1K3

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Fw 190A vs P-47D diving from 25,000 ft to deck.
« on: April 25, 2007, 01:52:17 PM »
Which of these planes can reach the deck faster at a 45 degree angle dive?

Offline Bodhi

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Fw 190A vs P-47D diving from 25,000 ft to deck.
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2007, 02:37:08 PM »
Without looking it up I'd bet it is the P-47.
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Offline Viking

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Fw 190A vs P-47D diving from 25,000 ft to deck.
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2007, 03:32:31 PM »
Interestingly the Fw 190 has a higher critical Mach number than the P-47, so if both aircraft dived steeply enough to reach such speed the Fw 190 would pull away from the P-47. I don’t know what angle the dive would be however.

Offline kennyhayes

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Fw 190A vs P-47D diving from 25,000 ft to deck.
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2007, 05:09:35 PM »
i think the p47 would win.

Offline 1K3

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Fw 190A vs P-47D diving from 25,000 ft to deck.
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2007, 05:16:15 PM »
I need numbers!

(I'm @ school right now, can't do this Fw 190 vs P-47 test)

Offline F4UDOA

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Fw 190A vs P-47D diving from 25,000 ft to deck.
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2007, 07:28:25 PM »
Quote
Interestingly the Fw 190 has a higher critical Mach number than the P-47, so if both aircraft dived steeply enough to reach such speed the Fw 190 would pull away from the P-47. I don’t know what angle the dive would be however.



The dive restriction on the P-47 is much higher than that of the FW190A series. The P-47 is restriction is over 500MPH at 10K while the FW190 is limited to 466MPH (Luftwaffe restriction listed in cockpit).

The P-47 will out dive a Mustang. Check out Neil and Mike's webpage for comparitive dive performance here

Dive performance

Offline 1K3

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Fw 190A vs P-47D diving from 25,000 ft to deck.
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2007, 07:44:52 PM »
now how about in-game...

Offline bozon

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Fw 190A vs P-47D diving from 25,000 ft to deck.
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2007, 12:27:15 AM »
In the game my money is on the 190.
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Offline Knegel

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Fw 190A vs P-47D diving from 25,000 ft to deck.
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2007, 01:43:47 AM »
Hi,

some weeks ago i made such tests(in a very simply way).

I took a 190A8 and a P47D-25, climbed to 25000ft(here the A8 have a wep climb of around 1800ft/min, the P47 around 2000ft/min w/o wep and around 2900ft/min with wep). Then i accelerated to 200mph and started a dive. While looking to the right sight initially the horizon fog started in the upper left corner of my screens(dont know exact what dive angle this was, no WEP but full throttle), now i enabled the "flight autopilot angle mode", what keeps the current flight angle constant(as long as the flight physics allow it).
The 190 accelerated rather fast under hard bufferings to 600mph, here the trim wasnt enough to keep the dive angle, so the plane raised slowly the nose, and after around 45sec, in around 3k alt, the plane was in a level flight starting a slow climb.
The P47D-25 had a suprising slow acceleration, the buffering did start more early and it never did reach 600mph, but it also leveled out alone in around 5k alt after around 55sec.

Since the P47D have a MUCH better climb in 25k alt, it also should have a much faster dive acceleration up there as result it should dive much faster.

But here, imho, the wrong FW190A8 FM show up.
The FW190A8 imho have to few drag(specialy parasite drag), but it miss power.  As result the plane is realistic fast, have a realistic climb(both rather on the lower end of the scale) but on the other side it dive to good and it bleed to much energy while turning with full power.
But of course it could also be the other way around: Then the P47 would be to powerfull and would have to much drag, resulting in a realistic Vmax, but a to bad dive.
I often fly a FW190A8 and without engine(no power) it need ages to slow this plane down,  the Sp16 for example decelerate MUCH faster, if both planes have the trottle on zero.
BUT, if both planes turn with full power, the 190A8 decelerate much faster, althought it have some hundret HP more power(it looks like we have the 2050HP 190A8).

I see a big discrepancy here!! Also while a full power highspeed upzoom the FW190A8 is one of the badest planes in game, although the powerload and inertia are rather good(at least in low level). Even the 109F4 own the FW190A8 in a highspeed upzoom, although the FW190A8 has a better powerload and keep MUCH more inertia.

My conclusion:
The 190´s need more drag, but more power in relation to the other planes.

Greetings,

Knegel

Offline LEADPIG

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Fw 190A vs P-47D diving from 25,000 ft to deck.
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2007, 04:49:34 AM »
Calling Widewing to the front Widewing please ......:D

Offline Rebel

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Fw 190A vs P-47D diving from 25,000 ft to deck.
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2007, 11:05:49 AM »
well, the way it *should* be is thus...

the 190 may have a higher critical mach number, but no plane in the ETO short of the -38 could match the Jug's initial dive acceleration.  Several 56th pilots informed me that the aircraft would hit compression within seconds after unloading it and firewalling the throttle.

Best way to dive- unload. 0G's.  No match angles, no autopilot tricks.  Keep the acceleratometer at 0, then see how quick and how fast you go.  The 190 may win the top speed race, but the -47 will get to it's top speed long before the 190 will.
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Offline republic

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Fw 190A vs P-47D diving from 25,000 ft to deck.
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2007, 01:42:51 PM »
25,000 feet?  I'm too scared of spacemonkeys to go that high...  :O
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Offline Knegel

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Fw 190A vs P-47D diving from 25,000 ft to deck.
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2007, 02:40:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rebel
well, the way it *should* be is thus...

the 190 may have a higher critical mach number, but no plane in the ETO short of the -38 could match the Jug's initial dive acceleration.  Several 56th pilots informed me that the aircraft would hit compression within seconds after unloading it and firewalling the throttle.

Best way to dive- unload. 0G's.  No match angles, no autopilot tricks.  Keep the acceleratometer at 0, then see how quick and how fast you go.  The 190 may win the top speed race, but the -47 will get to it's top speed long before the 190 will.



Hi,

actually dive tests did show a better intial dive acceleration for the 190A, while the P47 did gain a good advanatage afterward!!

This is probably related to the higher dragload of the FW190A, while the P47 keep more power + more weight.

Initially the weight is a handycap, cause it need to get accelerated, once fast the weight worklike thrust itself in a dive, so the P47 could dive faster.

I also doubt that the FW190 had a higher critical mach!!

Afaik the early P47 got a heavy elevator, but not the compression problems like the P38.

The wing aspect ratio of the P47 was very low, this in general is very good for a high critical mach.  Also some dive tests did show rather good results and also the pilots in war (german and US) tell about the good P47 dive speed.

Greetings,

Knegel

Offline BaldEagl

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Fw 190A vs P-47D diving from 25,000 ft to deck.
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2007, 04:52:10 PM »
190A what?  5 or 8?

P-47D what?  11, 25 or 40?
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Offline Spikes

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Fw 190A vs P-47D diving from 25,000 ft to deck.
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2007, 06:07:24 PM »
yes,

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I'd say the P-47 only because of its ability to not compress :O
the A8 seems to compress easily..or at least to me.
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