Flaps in the turn fight?

[BaldEagl]

The only time I've ever used trim (outside of minor course or climb adjustments while getting to a fight on auto-pilot) is to  trim elevators up when compressing in a dive, particularily with some of the 109's.  I will say it's saved my butt a few times in that situation.

[B@tfinkV]

no need to step on eggshells TC, i dont think anyone is argueing.

thanks for the scalling advice, but mine is just as good as it can be, 8 month old cyborg and they not too hot when they new. its setup fine.

what i do i set the down on the single hat switch as elevator trim up, and a close thumb button as toggle combat trim. there is a thumb button below the hat that i use for check6. it first started with a busted check six view on old stick hat forcing the thumb ck6.

now i, forgive my arrogance, never once requested nor recived a training session from the corps, and i never really went much for the new school dueling scene unless at a friendly and meaningless level other than for fun.

about a year into AH1 i was learning as much as i could with pwnage sessions in the DA from people like yucca, sniper, bighorn, wildthng and other who could whipe the floor with me in seconds.

Sniper in particular showed me the perfect moments and moves in which to adjust elevator trim for maximum spitV dweebery. and i distinctly remember bighorn answering my question 'yes manual trim can be a deciding factor in a close turn fight.' i just belive in what i was shown and have found to produce the results.

whatever the technical sides of trim being covered here, and believe me the training corps is second to none for excelent and regular tech info, nothing can deny me how it feels when i fly a certain way that i have flown and developed over 4 maybe nearly 5 years now, i certainly would not try to tell anyone else how they should best fly any given bird, but i can sure say my own way.

my first, and yet last words on this discourse remain the same, i agree with the post stating 'manual trimming can give you an edge.'

S!

[TequilaChaser]

No Worries B@tfinkV,
I did not want you to think I was  arguing, since I sort of sidestepped my way in to the conversation  
yes, I did mention above that:

Only in EXTREME cases where both pilots are almost equal in terms of their skill and when flying the same plane types just maybe

in response to a question you had asked:

Originally posted by B@tfinkV
do you wish to propose to me that using manual elevator trim DOES NOT GIVE YOU AN EDGE in a turn fight?

as you and I both have stated, along with others..use what works for you.

for the most part, I find it unnecessary to use the elevator trim, but there are occassions where it might help as I listed above. Others also mentioned in dives when compressing, or other possible times like if you are flying a damaged plane....

and I am not trying to make you change the way you fly, B@t, curiosity sparked me to respond, by the way you described how & why/when you use the trim, that is all

I feel flying out of plane maneuvers to benefit alot more in gaining angles than adjusting trim, but still there will always be those extreme fights where one pulls out all punches/tricks they can think of

 look forward to seeing you up in the game

[Murdr]

There is a persistant myth regarding manual triming elevators making one turn tighter.  While nobody specifically said that, it should not take much of a leap for anyone, expecially newer players to read into the quote I first cited, and conclude it can make one turn tighter.  The implication is there whether intended or not.

As a trainer, I am on the lookout to make sure correct info is posted clearly somewhere in a thread.  Drunky (who I find quite entertaining at times) was more than welcome to further elaborate on his comments if my reply was off track of his intended statement.  Actually, a more detailed explaination would be a great addition to the discussion.  But Im not going to take part in a third party debate on semantics, because only the poster can say exactly what they meant.

Now personally I used manual trim exactly as TC described that he uses it.  That is what works best for me.  

When it comes to issues of gameplay, and of personal preference, trainers are not here to teach our personal preferences or debate what is "best".  We explain the scope/limitations of the game model, and offer suggestions for technics if there is more than one way to accomplish the task in question.

Sorry for being relatively brief or silent, but I wanted to let the on topic part of the thread play out before participating in a hi-jack.

[Vudak]

Hey TC...  What speed do you take CT off for the Corsairs again?

I just came back from a six month hiatus and they went and changed the graphics on me! No more lining it up at the bottom of the L!

(THAT I always found useful stability wise).

[TequilaChaser]

For the F4U-1A, F4U-1D, F4U-4 I am setting TRIM out at  325/330  mph  ( IAS needle/white needle )

in the F4U-1C because of it using the old cockpit insturmentation, I still set it at 280 to 300..........er ELV trim line ( Red Line in line with the bottom of the L

E
L _
V

[Vudak]

Thanks, TC

[crockett]

I fly mostly the a6m2b right now and I use 1 to 2 notches of flaps all the time during turn fights (when it gets slow).

I normally don't go more than 2 notches unless the fight gets real, real slow and then I'll drop my gears, if I need to get it any slower. I Normally only do that against another a6m's or the occasional spit 5 pilot that's good. Otherwise 1 or 2 notches is more than enough to get you turning inside most other planes.

Flaps will slow you down, but I find in the A6m I'm never too worried about speed anyway it's sweet spot is under 200mph so I just stay in the 150 to 200 mpg range at most times. Only time I fly any faster is if I'm going to or away from the fight. So losing speed isn't ever a real issue to me in most cases.

However I normally don't leave my flaps on long, if I'm slow enough to deploy them anyway. I normally raise them back as soon as I get the tight turn I needed, because otherwise the enemy plane might get a run from you.

[B@tfinkV]

ok i thought about it last night while flying.

concluded that the most imprtant thing i use manual trim for is fine control.

having a very cheap stick one is limited when it comes to gentle movements of the elevators, and should i be pulling a certain ammount, just riding the stall point, and need that tiny bit extra but cannont acurately achieve it with the stick, then a manual trim becomes a perfect method of fine adjustment. At this moment, just notching the trim back a little way will give me that extra turn without me risking pulling a little too hard on a stick with poor fine control.

its definitely not a scalling or setup issue, the stick simply cannot produce as fine results as adding some trim, especially whens its almost a year old.

S!

[WMLute]

Originally posted by TequilaChaser
For the F4U-1A, F4U-1D, F4U-4 I am setting TRIM out at  325/330  mph  ( IAS needle/white needle )

in the F4U-1C because of it using the old cockpit insturmentation, I still set it at 280 to 300..........er ELV trim line ( Red Line in line with the bottom of the L

E
L _
V

ok, i'm confused here, and should prob. just go re-read all the posts, but...

are you saying TC that when you reach those airspeeds, you turn combat trim on, then off so it's "trimmed at those speeds"?  and then you fight like that?

(just gettin' clarification)

[Murdr]

I don't know about TC, but that is exactly how I use it.  If you slow and deploy flaps, the extra lift from the flaps actually keeps the nose from being trimmed too heavy.  Like TC said, I'd rather it be trimmed so that I dont have to force the nose down during shooting.  But even trimmed for cruise speed, some planes will be nose light with several notches of flaps out.

[DweebFire]

Hello all again.

B@tfink, I see that your avatar displays the Spitfire Mk.V. Im wondering how you fly that agains the Zeros after it has been nerfed of the c-type wing and the +16 lb. boost that I was told was in Aces High I (a plane which I think should replace the current Mk.V). With a climb rate of 600 fpm less and a decrease in speed and acceleration, I'm barely able to outdive those A6M's with the Spitfire F. Mk. IX let alone the 1941 Spitfire Mk.V!

Plus I think I may need some training or lecture on dodging higher-alt Spitfires, La-7's and other BnZ lightweights.

Sorry to say priorities have totally taken me off from paying for the fully online version, so I can only play on 8-player.

P.S. Why is there a random Seafire Mk.IIC ..? shouldnt it be the more common Seafire L Mk.III? And I'm not sure, but should the 182 lbs. of extra weight on the Spitfire LF VIII over the Spitfire IX really affect maneuverability that much? I find i outturn Spitfire LF VIII's in the game very often in my F4U-1A - even at low speed.

[B@tfinkV]

hey Dweebfire i would be more than happy to hook up if we meet online, and we can go to a quiet area and fly some spitV. just shout anytime you see me in game.

my only real advice on killing a zero in the MkV is to play it from the negative energy advantage, slow down as much as you can and unless the zeke is on form you will have little trouble staying in control for the first minute of the fight.

i will try to find some films.

the F4u is a very likely winner vs most spitfies, especially in a medium to slow speed fight, unless the spitfire slows down first.

S!

[DweebFire]

thanks!

yea, the F4U Corsair is, IMO, the best overall prop-driven fighter design of WWII and vertical fighting is fun in it. However, the late-variant LF Spitfires seem to accelerate so quickly that they can disengage from the F4U's at any time and quickly build up energy while the F4U- (sometimes, even new F4U-4 pilots) is lagging behind after blowing energy on fighting with gear and flaps. After extending the Spit can climb away or turn the whole thing into a turn fight.

F4U-4's have the option to run, dive, and (if already fast) to outzoom the Spitfires.

With pros at the controls, methinks it all comes down to pilot skill and maybe a tad of luck, but those rare, good Spitfire pilots will seemingly always find an altitude advantage.

[dedalos]

Ahem, why would a spit disengage from an F4U?  Are we being funny here? lol