Author Topic: Let me play Devils advocate here...  (Read 1349 times)

Offline ramzey

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« Reply #45 on: May 01, 2007, 08:37:50 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
I may have looked at the wrong study. I knew a recetn study had been done But was not sure by whom
in any event
Not "illegal"per sey but

"Changes to immigration policy could have a much larger effect on the fiscal deficits generated by low-skill fam_ilies. Policies which would substantially increase the inflow of low-skill immigrant workers receiving services would dramatically increase the fiscal deficits described in this paper and impose substantial costs on U.S. taxpayers"
[/b]

so you made thats up,  cuz numbers are scary to look at? its called manipulation of evidence  (some can call that lie)

also, quote you put above its about what could happen if future immigration if  llaw change. Thats don't  include different approach to those new who like to work for better future and those who are just too lazy to move their bellybutton and work. Its base on prediction new emigration don't like to improve their social situation as those who receive those gov benefits now.

Quote

and from the same site

"The cost of this illegal activity is almost impossible to nail down, but it’s estimated at around $45 billion a year, and we know that that’s mostly in education, in incarcerating criminals, and health services"
http://www.heritage.org/Research/GovernmentReform/hl924.cfm


lol, cost of illegal activity, what kind of illegal activity?
look at thos form other side, all those teachers, nurses, policeman, border patrols guys, doctors, land lords,farmers, construction contractors.....  earn their income cuz of those illegal activities.

Otherwise  most of them have to be on welfer or food stamps.
witch could be more costly then those illegal activities

Quote

And ok from a study by another group

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A33783-2004Aug25.html
Households headed by illegal aliens imposed more than $26.3 billion in costs on the federal government in 2002 and paid only $16 billion in taxes, creating a net fiscal deficit of $10.4 billion, or $2,700 per illegal household," said Steven A. Camarota, author of the study.


I hope you are not blind  to recognize this one was made up  based on the same report you quoted as first, but in place of low income families, someone put illegal alliens.
another manipulation to put more gasoline to the fire

If they are illegal, thy don't pay taxes at all , cuz they are illegal, so how come they can pay taxes????? and receive benefits?
« Last Edit: May 01, 2007, 08:42:00 PM by ramzey »

Offline Toad

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« Reply #46 on: May 01, 2007, 09:05:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ramzey
like? and exactly where?


Most retail. Cabela's, Coldwater Creek and many others.

Most start people at either seasonal or part time rates which are about $8.50.

Check out Cabela's. Almost exclusively white American men and women.

Two off the top of my head.
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Offline ramzey

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« Reply #47 on: May 01, 2007, 09:22:51 PM »
and reason for that is cuz they don't like to move and work in other place
someone with permanent residency, SSN number have unlimited number of choices

not cuz  there is no jobs in US where you have  to sweet for more then 8,50 /hour

Offline Trell

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« Reply #48 on: May 01, 2007, 09:24:20 PM »
Most call centers start agents at 8$/h around my area.  Most retail is an minimum wage or close to start.  
But that is all indoor work.  
Outside with backbreaking work people expect more money.  White guys working lawn and spraying crews make around 11-14 here.    A worthless job is all in perception.

Offline Ack-Ack

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« Reply #49 on: May 01, 2007, 09:44:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
I'm not the one who should determine what jobs are worth.  Neither are you.

The market determines that.


I did have a post written that would have pre-empted your comment, however I didn't like how it was worded and chose not to post it.

By the huge influx of illegal workers, and because more come in every day, the cause of their low wage is themselves.  

Out of everyone in America who is truly earning what they should get paid, it is the illegal workers.  There are a lot of illegal migrant workers, and since the laws don't apply to them, they truly work for how much supply and demand dictates that they should work for, and not some minimum wage law.

They are screwing themselves.  And you want me to feel sympathetic for them?


If we were to kick all of the illegals out.  And I mean kick them all out under threat of death if they were to return illegally, then there would be a much smaller work force of the actual unemployed legal americans.  The business men (due to the laws of supply and demand) would be forced to pay more to attract people to the jobs that the illegals had.

Then the unemployed would have money, they would spend it, and everything would be better.


You know anything about economics?  Since the businesses would have to pay a higher wage, they'd have to recoup those losses to make a profit or at least break even and stay in business.  How do you think they'd recoup those losses?  They'd increase the price of their product and then the consumer will start to cry about having to pay $6 for a head of lettace.

This is one of the reasons why businesses are rarely gone after for hiring illegal aliens.  


ack-ack
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Offline Mr No Name

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« Reply #50 on: May 01, 2007, 09:47:44 PM »
Looks like a great place to test cluster munitions and nepalm... at the same time.
Vote R.E. Lee '24

Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #51 on: May 01, 2007, 10:00:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
You know anything about economics?  Since the businesses would have to pay a higher wage, they'd have to recoup those losses to make a profit or at least break even and stay in business.  How do you think they'd recoup those losses?  They'd increase the price of their product and then the consumer will start to cry about having to pay $6 for a head of lettace.

This is one of the reasons why businesses are rarely gone after for hiring illegal aliens.  


ack-ack


I know a lot about economics.  Sure, lettuce would go up to 6 dollars a head.  But some one out there would figure out a way to expedite the process, and make himself a billion dollars.  And lettuce is back to whatever it was.
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Offline ramzey

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« Reply #52 on: May 01, 2007, 10:36:12 PM »
nope, they will import from china and hurt US  economics even more

Offline john9001

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« Reply #53 on: May 01, 2007, 10:44:22 PM »
lettuce will not go up to 6 dollars a head, at most it will go up 10 or 15 cents per head. which will destroy the american economy and bring about a world wide recession.
:O

Offline B@tfinkV

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« Reply #54 on: May 01, 2007, 11:12:04 PM »
always complaining about the illegals, but you guys reall yshould look at the root cause of your problem...


i think THIS GUY might be a major contributor.
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Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #55 on: May 01, 2007, 11:48:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ramzey


so you made thats up,  cuz numbers are scary to look at? its called manipulation of evidence  (some can call that lie)

also, quote you put above its about what could happen if future immigration if  llaw change. Thats don't  include different approach to those new who like to work for better future and those who are just too lazy to move their bellybutton and work. Its base on prediction new emigration don't like to improve their social situation as those who receive those gov benefits now.



lol, cost of illegal activity, what kind of illegal activity?
look at thos form other side, all those teachers, nurses, policeman, border patrols guys, doctors, land lords,farmers, construction contractors.....  earn their income cuz of those illegal activities.

Otherwise  most of them have to be on welfer or food stamps.
witch could be more costly then those illegal activities

 

I hope you are not blind  to recognize this one was made up  based on the same report you quoted as first, but in place of low income families, someone put illegal alliens.
another manipulation to put more gasoline to the fire

If they are illegal, thy don't pay taxes at all , cuz they are illegal, so how come they can pay taxes????? and receive benefits? [/B]


didnt realise the "Center for Immigration Studies" and "the Heritage Foundation" were the same thing.

Irreguardless. it is safe to assume that the vast majority of illegals are not very educated. Thus they would certainly fall into the "uneducated" catagory

increasingly crime is becomming a major factor in illegals

Just because they are illegal doent mean they dont pay taxes.
In fact one of the ways they get in is through phoney documents SS cards
and Drivers licences and the like. So many of them do pay taxes BUT they also manage to finagle themselves into the welfare systems and take advantage of our Health care system.

While they are paying into the system. what they put in does not cover what they take out

And even if you take our own LEGAL poor into account.
We have enough problems taking care of our own poor without having to worry about taking care of people who DO NOT LEGALLY BELONG HERE as well.
they only further burdon the sytem

I dont buy this load of crap that these (insert vocation here) need the illegals. Thats a load of crap.
They need illegals to operate businessess dishonestly and illegally.
what they do is n the case of landscapers for example. Deal in a cash basis.
They pay the illegals a low wage and only report about half of what they make. often less.
Dont kid yourself into thinking they are charging the customer less because of illegals.
thats a crock too.
I see this garbage damn near every day
Get rid of the illegal workforce and nothing will change but the amount of profit the contractor is able to pocket because he wont be able to charge any more then what people doing business legally are charging

Im a contractor myself and I keep my hand on the pulse of what people are charging so I can adjust my prices accordingly.
Dont think for a minute that most of these guy with illegals are charging much if anything less then those of us doing business legally are. They arent. On average its about the same.

Yea some may be alot cheaper. But those are usually the inexperienced and unlicensed (and thus also uninsured) So they are illegal businessess all the way around

I do not hire illegals or anyone I even suspect of being illegal. (I will hoever politely take your name,address and phone number and turn you in)

There are people willing to do the work for what I want to pay. Which can often be less then $10 per hour or as high as $16 depending on what Im having them do and what their capabilities are
In the summer Teenagers  and college students work out just fine. The ones that dont I get rid of and replace with another.
I dont have to worry or feel bad about laying them off at the end of the season or if things get slow.
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Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #56 on: May 01, 2007, 11:49:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by B@tfinkV
always complaining about the illegals, but you guys reall yshould look at the root cause of your problem...


i think THIS GUY might be a major contributor.


what does Jack Benny have to do with illegals?
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Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #57 on: May 01, 2007, 11:51:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
You know anything about economics?  Since the businesses would have to pay a higher wage, they'd have to recoup those losses to make a profit or at least break even and stay in business.  How do you think they'd recoup those losses?  They'd increase the price of their product and then the consumer will start to cry about having to pay $6 for a head of lettace.

This is one of the reasons why businesses are rarely gone after for hiring illegal aliens.  


ack-ack


No. he still woudnt be able to sell it for any more then what the legally run businesses are selling it for.
Not EVERYONE hires illegals
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For those who wish to know
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Offline cav58d

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« Reply #58 on: May 02, 2007, 12:35:04 AM »
Honestly.  I don't care about illegals.  I'm sure there is a ton of sob storys to be told, but after watching these million man idiot marches over the past year, and seeing how they act and their complete disregard for this country, its people and it's culture, I just dont care about them.  And I dont feel bad about it either.

I mean, WTF!  This would be like me sneaking into Germany, or China and demanding citizenship.  I really hate illegal aliens.  It really is a shame the minute men cant shoot them.

America has gone so far down the drain lately.  Nothing is unifying.  We have Italians.  Blacks....French.  But no one ever says American.  So ya know what?  Let these dirty illegals in then.  If no one else wants to be American, then why should I care

ugh
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Offline cav58d

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« Reply #59 on: May 02, 2007, 12:46:58 AM »
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