Author Topic: Stability with the Ki-84 (Read 2811 times)

sax · « **Reply #15 on:** May 01, 2007, 09:44:52 PM »

Might wanna tell Wilbuz , he doesn't seem to aware of that
little glitch .

Engine · « **Reply #16 on:** May 01, 2007, 11:12:37 PM »

Hi Karash!

I haven't noticed anything strange with my 84 since my little AH break; it still seems one of the most stable planes in the game. I do, however, fly with stall limiter.

My guess is that it has something to do with your stick settings. Maybe the sensitivity is set too high, and the plane isn't liking (what it sees as) aggressive control input?

Oh, and I never bothered with the trim thing either. As far as I am aware, you'll get the same effect just pulling back all the way on the stick. Plus, it's one more thing to worry about in the middle of a fight, which is never good.

SAS_KID · « **Reply #17 on:** May 02, 2007, 12:26:56 AM »

KI-84 is a bloody roflcopter.

Sweet2th · « **Reply #18 on:** May 02, 2007, 07:47:13 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by SuperDud
Turning trim on and off is still an on going debate. Some says it works, others that all it does is not force you to pull all the way back on the stick. I'm of the school that you gain no significant advantage from manual trim. HTC himself commented that it won't help with turn rate.

It makes the difference if time is taken to learn and adapt it.Pulling way back on the joystick usually leads to blacking out and loss of SA as well as loss of energy.IMHO anyone who says it won't help you is just telling you that so you don't use like they are!

Karash, when i take up a Ki-84 i always go 50% fuel.Always burn the Center fuel tank down first in the Ki-84, this causes it to be a whole different bird.

Krusty · « **Reply #19 on:** May 02, 2007, 09:31:10 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sweet2th
Karash, when i take up a Ki-84 i always go 50% fuel.Always burn the Center fuel tank down first in the Ki-84, this causes it to be a whole different bird.

That's because the majority of the fuel is in the center tank... The reason it flies better is because you only have 15 minutes flight time left (not enough for me).

I regularly take 75% internal (or 50% and DTs) and have no problems out turning other craft. I leave it on auto fuel tank selection.

Just a differing opinion on the matter.

Karash · « **Reply #20 on:** May 02, 2007, 11:37:29 AM »

I tried last night flying with both Combat Trim and the Stall Limiter enabled...and to be honest I cannot see how you guys do it

. The Ki-84 is very sluggish with these features turned on. I do a lot of stall fighting and know what it is, however I never thought about the different types of stalls in regards to what wing you push down.

Some great information on this thread and I thank those pilots for contributing.

Btw Engine, you dont count if you use both CT and Stall Limiter getting the sick kills that you do. !

Karnak · « **Reply #21 on:** May 02, 2007, 11:43:17 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by FX1
I would go ahead and use combat trim. I found that if your not in the DA in most birds its ok to go ahead and use it. I fly with combat trim and da with it off in the 109's and p38. Just something else to think about in the middle of a fight that doesn't give you that much if advantage.

Do NOT fly the Ki-84 with Combat Trim enabled. Combat Trim is the reason some KI-84 players can't pull a blackout at 350mph as Combat Trim is trimming nose down, making the already heavy elevators nearly unresponsive for a pull up.

Engine · « **Reply #22 on:** May 02, 2007, 12:22:46 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
Do NOT fly the Ki-84 with Combat Trim enabled. Combat Trim is the reason some KI-84 players can't pull a blackout at 350mph as Combat Trim is trimming nose down, making the already heavy elevators nearly unresponsive for a pull up.

Ahaaaaa... I did not know that. Thanks!

Engine · « **Reply #23 on:** May 02, 2007, 12:24:02 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sweet2th
Pulling way back on the joystick usually leads to blacking out and loss of SA as well as loss of energy.

Blackouts are a function of G forces, and whether you're doing 5Gs from pulling the stick back or by half stick/half trim, you're still doing 5Gs.

Karash · « **Reply #24 on:** May 02, 2007, 12:26:27 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Engine
Ahaaaaa... I did not know that. Thanks!

Like I stated, I dont see HOW you fly the 84 the way you do with CT on

Elevator response is soooo crappy with CT enabled (imo)

HomeBoy · « **Reply #25 on:** May 02, 2007, 12:27:56 PM »

I added pots to my hotas for elevator, rudder, and aileron trim. I have not used Combat Trim for over seven months now. It takes some getting used to for sure but well worth the effort.

Analog trim is way more precise than digital (button) trim; both of which give you far more control over your aircraft than CT. I can trim my plane on final approach and land without even touching the stick (just a little throttle adjustment). I have on a number of occasions touched down completely blacked out from a pilot wound to find my plane sitting nicely on the runway with the engine still running. I also find that when I compress a plane in a dive to the point where no inputs work, I can usually analog trim my way out of that situation.

I personally feel Combat Trim is something you should ween yourself off of. IMHO of course. I used CT for over ten years and I would never go back to it at this point.

-hb

Engine · « **Reply #26 on:** May 02, 2007, 12:42:13 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karash
Like I stated, I dont see HOW you fly the 84 the way you do with CT on

Elevator response is soooo crappy with CT enabled (imo)

I don't really know either. I get the majority of my kills by slowly building energy while people waste theirs, so I'm using a lot of vertical and flying at low-to-mid speeds where the Ki excels and the sluggishness of 300+ turning isn't apparent.

From all the testimonials, I guess I really should dump the CT. But every time I've tried I find it too unwieldy and my hands too busy dealing with trim to work the plane. So I just go back to CT in an hour or two.

Karnak · « **Reply #27 on:** May 02, 2007, 01:26:05 PM »

I mostly just let it be out of trim, unless it is way out of trim. I'd rather be able to break into a diving P-51 and be a bit out of trim than to be stuck in the mud and dead, but nicely trimmed for it.

Krusty · « **Reply #28 on:** May 02, 2007, 01:44:42 PM »

Map combat trim to a button on your stick. Toggle it on then off.

It's like setting trim to pre-determined tables for your current speed. You could write these tables down yourself, but the game does it for you (built into combat trim).

So just toggle it and turn it off, so it sets them, then leaves them.

Karash · « **Reply #29 on:** May 02, 2007, 01:58:13 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Engine
I don't really know either. I get the majority of my kills by slowly building energy while people waste theirs, so I'm using a lot of vertical and flying at low-to-mid speeds where the Ki excels and the sluggishness of 300+ turning isn't apparent.

From all the testimonials, I guess I really should dump the CT. But every time I've tried I find it too unwieldy and my hands too busy dealing with trim to work the plane. So I just go back to CT in an hour or two.

I think its a matter of your HOTAS setup to be honest. If you dont have analog sliders for it on your throttle its not practical. I have these on my x52 setup and they work great.