Author Topic: Manual Trim? (Read 457 times)

Boozebag · « **on:** May 02, 2007, 04:02:27 PM »

I was reading the tread on "stability in Ki84", lots of talk of manual trim.
Have been playing AHII since Jan.'06, so I'm not that great, and have never been able to manually trim an aircraft. Don't know why. Tried with keyboard, tried mapping trim to analog; rotaries & slider on joystick. Joystick=Saitek X52. I just can't ever get strait & level, aircraft in trim, with manual. How do you make it work? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Lusche · « **Reply #1 on:** May 02, 2007, 04:23:51 PM »

Im just playing a few weeks longer than you, and I think I'm doing fine.. more or less

And 99% of the time I don't use manual trim.

I tried the same thinks like you did, first with standard keys, then with my x45 rotary trims. But I always felt uncomnfortable, and way too busy with other things than constantantly fine tuning my trim. Maybe it's just the lack of feedback compared to a "real life" pilot.

I do, however, have still my elevator trim mapped to my thumb rotaries and one button mapped to "toggle combat trim". My rotary is usually tuned to "full deflection". That's very useful in planes like P38, 109K or Ki84, which compress quite easy. One click of a button helps me getting out of that dive. But in dogfights, I usually don't use it, even back when the Ki-84 was my main ride.

DweebFire · « **Reply #2 on:** May 02, 2007, 04:47:56 PM »

Well when you gain in speed, you need to trim in accordance. I dont use manual in Aces High, but fly a real plane, and you'll know.

As speed gets higher, your nose often pitches upwards and your nose yaws in the direction of the prop's spinning direction. As extra power is applied very quickly, the kick of wind often will yaw the nose AGAINST the prop's spin. This is called the slipstream effect.

As a result, you will never be able to trim your aircraft PERFECTLY since an increase in speed will cause the pilot to add in more trim input. At top speed, you'll be able to trim the aircraft more easily as it can't really change its speed unless you slow down. More often than not, any adjustment of the throttle will require an adjustment in trim to get the plane stable. In real life, it's more complicated than that. Wind, air pressure, blalala etc.

hope that helps!

NitroFish · « **Reply #3 on:** May 03, 2007, 08:41:18 AM »

I've been flying about a year as well and haven't used manual trim until this tour. I'm learning the P38s and have noticed a big difference with and without combat trim. I have a button toggled to combat trim, so I can turn it off quickly. I also have auto level mapped so I can hit the auto level and turn off combat trim which almost puts all the trim in a neutral position. Then I can make small adjustments to the trim as needed.

hammer · « **Reply #4 on:** May 03, 2007, 09:25:09 AM »

One of the things to consider is that any trim settings are only valid for a given speed. If you are at full throttle, but not at max speed, any trim settings you make will soon be off because you have increased your speed, which increases air flow over your control surfaces, which changes the amount of force needed to counter etc etc. Before you can trim to fly straight and level with no input, you have to be at a steady speed.

In practice with manual trim, you want to be close. That is why you will see some people talk about turning on auto-trim (which gets close) and then turning auto-trim off. This gives you a decent solution for a given speed but doesn't start adjusting the trim during a fight.

Regards,

Hammer

Benny Moore · « **Reply #5 on:** May 03, 2007, 10:24:45 AM »

I leave the elevator trim at neutral in all aircraft at all times, unless I am out of control in a dive. You can take this advice or leave it; the reason for it is that it allows you far better feel for the stall, since the stick angle for the stall at a given speed will always be the same if the stick's always at a certain trim setting.

Also, trim does not and cannot work in a software simulator the way it does in reality, simply because our hardware (our gaming joysticks and pedals) are totally incapable of handling correct modelling. We have the best simulation you can get, but it's a far cry from the real thing. By the way, trimming a real airplane is far easier than it is in a simulator.

Simaril · « **Reply #6 on:** May 03, 2007, 10:32:39 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by hammer
...
In practice with manual trim, you want to be close. That is why you will see some people talk about turning on auto-trim (which gets close) and then turning auto-trim off. This gives you a decent solution for a given speed but doesn't start adjusting the trim during a fight.

Regards,

Hammer

Just as a note -- this tactic does NOT work if you have mapped the controls to the rotaries. If you use rotary control, when you turn combat trim off the trim immediately shfts toward the roatay setting instead of staying put like it would with keyboard control.

Boozebag · « **Reply #7 on:** May 03, 2007, 11:07:21 AM »

Thanks for the insight guys. It helps. I just mapped a one button combat trim, good idea for my compression issues. I have trimmed real aircraft, old ones, roof cranks & bending trim tabs. That's a lot easier than this. Guess I'll just have to play with all this a while. Probably not in a sea of red. I get killed enough.

mtnman · « **Reply #8 on:** May 03, 2007, 11:40:31 AM »

I use an X52 stick as well, and use manual trim quite a bit.

I've mapped the top center button on my stick (the one with the stupid protective cover) to toggle combat trim on/off.

I've mapped the top left HAT switch on the stick to the different trims. Pushing the HAT forward is down elevator, pulling it back is up. Left/right is aileron. Down and left, or down and right gives me rudder trim. Basically I set it up like a mini-joystick. Tapping it here and there is all it takes to trim my plane.

I use auto trim for all my general flying. I use manual trim for certain manuevers (roping is one). I always use manual trim to trim for a landing, or when I lose big parts and want to RTB. I will often use manual trim when in slow fights with flaps. I often use it when low and slow getting jumped by higher cons. I like my elevator at about the center, especially when I drop flaps. It seems to help keep me from ballooning and slowing too much. I just plain don't like the auto trim when I'm very fast, very slow, or in a "dirty" configuration.

Anytime I'm flying straight/level though I'm in auto.

MtnMan

Ghastly · « **Reply #9 on:** May 03, 2007, 03:59:12 PM »

In Warbirds, I was a master of the trim... I was the trim master. I'd find that trim, and I'd kick it's butt every time ...

as a Corsair pilot, you had to have it down cold or you were always fighting the plane more than your opponent.

But in AH, I find that the trim keys adjust the trim so much more slowly, and in such in "clunky" steps that even after months of play, I still have a very difficult time manually trimming out to center the controls as I fly as I've been accustomed to.

If anyone knows a way to speed up the responsiveness of the trim key movements, I'd love to know it.

DweebFire · « **Reply #10 on:** May 03, 2007, 07:35:45 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Benny Moore
By the way, trimming a real airplane is far easier than it is in a simulator.

Lol.. not for me.. well i mean understanding ALL of the forces of aerodynamics in real life anyway.