Results of chaning from Ki-84 to Spitfire Mk XIV...

[Karnak]

No, you're still missing it.

Why is a 19,500lb fighter easier to handle and more cooperative than a 8,500lb fighter when each is compared to a 7,500lb fighter?

[BaldEagl]

Nope, I got it the first time... It's that big torque rotating in the opposite direction of what you're used to.

I always have to consciously rememember to reverse all of my instinctive moves everytime I jump into a Spit XIV, Typhoon, Tempest or YAK.  They all share these reverse torque qualities (although somewhat less so in the YAK) and if I don't I often find myself in trouble, unable to complete a loop, unable to drop the left wing or worse.

In addition, the gyroscopic effect of that torque also adds to the problem, stabalizing the nose at the worst possible times (near stall).

Those particular planes are actually overpowered for their airframes and it shows in performance and manouvering but kept at speed the control surfaces are able to compensate.  As speed decreases they are not which is why the Typh and Temp both like to turn right on their own after take-off with auto take-off enabled until they reach ~175 mph.  Rudder and aileron trim isn't enough to offset the torque in those two planes in this situation.  The only thing that will do it is airflow around the rudder.

Oddly, it seems as though all the big torque engines in the game spin right though.  I can't think of one that spins left.

[Karnak]

Then why do the Typhoon, Tempest, and Yak-9s not fight me and the Spit XIV does?

Also, I rarely let a Spit XIV's speed drop below 250mph, let alone below 150mph.

[FiLtH]

I think between fighting a Spit16 or a Ki84 I'd prefer having to fight the Spit16. If you can survive the first couple of attacks it can turn into a turnfight. With the KI84, the fight starts out tuff and gets worse, especially if they use its climb on ya.

[BaldEagl]

Originally posted by Karnak
Then why do the Typhoon, Tempest, and Yak-9s not fight me and the Spit XIV does?

Also, I rarely let a Spit XIV's speed drop below 250mph, let alone below 150mph.

I'm just speculating but I'd say it's ecause a lot of noobs fly Spits and they don't know what a Spit XIV is actually like so they engage as normal.  After flying one they think "Why did I waste my perks on this POS" and don't get back in one.  That leaves you with a few "vets" who DO know how to fly one and they'll likely fight anything in anything and know how to do it.

Over the past three months total kills plus deaths are 191447 for the Spit XVI (among the highest in the arenas) and only 8609 for the Spit XIV, among the lowest in the arenas and in fact, even lower than the Spit I at 9928!  Given equal arena conditions it would be hard to make an argument that the I is a better plane than the XIV and this just points out how misunderstood the XIV is.

Total Spit kills plus deaths and kills per death (past 3 months):

SeaFire   106616   0.85
Spitfire Mk I   9928   0.24
Spitfire Mk IX   88581   1.11
Spitfire Mk V   31810   0.69
Spitfire Mk VIII   92273   0.92
Spitfire Mk XIV   8609   1.19
Spitfire Mk XVI   191447   1.10


BTW, my personal favorite is the V.

[EDIT]:  Added arena-wide kills per death for all Spits which shows the XIV's overall superiority.

[Atoon]

the 14 was introduced to that game at a time when speed was more important, and there seemed to be more hi alt fights. Since it was a fast spit that did well at hi alts it was perked on it entrance to the game. The game has changed alot since then, but the perk scale has not.

[SirLoin]

Originally posted by Widewing
Naw, the Spit VIII owns the Ki-84.... Given equal pilots, the Spit eats it up.

I disagree...The Ki84 has the best wep in the game..All you have to do is dance for a while..Run the spit8 hot and then the tables turn.The Ki can then outlast the spit8 even when both guys start flap-fiting.

[1K3]

spit 14 is like the late war 109s... they have higher top speed and rate of climb but manuverability suffered.

these 1930s fighters were pushed to the limit...

[Widewing]

Originally posted by SirLoin
I disagree...The Ki84 has the best wep in the game..All you have to do is dance for a while..Run the spit8 hot and then the tables turn.The Ki can then outlast the spit8 even when both guys start flap-fiting.

What makes you think that fight will last 5 minutes? It also assumes that WEP will be used uninterrupted.

By the way, 90 seconds on, 45 seconds off is not as good as 10 continuous minutes like the 109s and Lavochkins.

Let's review performance.

Climb: Spit VIII by a considerable margin.
Acceleration: See above.
Turn radius, no flaps: Spit VIII.
Turn radius, with flaps: Dead heat, but the Spit is more stable at high AoA.
Speed: Very slight edge to Ki-84 at sea level, but Spit gets to 250 mph faster.
Roll rate: Ki-84. However, the Spit's roll rate is greatly enhanced with rudder use.

I've dueled lot of guys in Ki-84s while flying the Spit VIII. I'll take the Spitfire. For that matter, I'd take the 109F-4 over the Ki-84 too.

[Karnak]

Originally posted by BaldEagl
I'm just speculating but I'd say it's ecause a lot of noobs fly Spits and they don't know what a Spit XIV is actually like so they engage as normal.  

And what precisely does this have to do with me?

I was one of the most vocal people advocating the addition of the Spitfire Mk XIV before it was added.  I well know it is not to be used like other Spitfires.  But a Typhoon is also not to be used like Spitfires, and it is easy to use.  The Spitfire Mk XIV fights me the whole time.

As a note, it didn't used to fight the pilot like it does now.


1K3,

History does not really agree with that.

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by BaldEagl
I'm just speculating but I'd say it's ecause a lot of noobs fly Spits and they don't know what a Spit XIV is actually like so they engage as normal.  After flying one they think "Why did I waste my perks on this POS" and don't get back in one.  That leaves you with a few "vets" who DO know how to fly one and they'll likely fight anything in anything and know how to do it.

Over the past three months total kills plus deaths are 191447 for the Spit XVI (among the highest in the arenas) and only 8609 for the Spit XIV, among the lowest in the arenas and in fact, even lower than the Spit I at 9928!  Given equal arena conditions it would be hard to make an argument that the I is a better plane than the XIV and this just points out how misunderstood the XIV is.

Total Spit kills plus deaths and kills per death (past 3 months):

SeaFire   106616   0.85
Spitfire Mk I   9928   0.24
Spitfire Mk IX   88581   1.11
Spitfire Mk V   31810   0.69
Spitfire Mk VIII   92273   0.92
Spitfire Mk XIV   8609   1.19
Spitfire Mk XVI   191447   1.10


BTW, my personal favorite is the V.

[EDIT]:  Added arena-wide kills per death for all Spits which shows the XIV's overall superiority.

Just supports what I already said -

Every other perked plane (including the Ta-152 when it was) always manages a better than 2.0 K/D.

A 0.09 advantage over a Spit XVI's K/D ratio hardly proves anything.

The XIV normal languishes at around 1.1 - 1.2 range.

Someone remind me what makes it so perkworthy in than MA?

Back to the main contension -
Still found nothing to suggest that apart from take-off and landing, the XIV behaved susbstantially different from any other Spit.
The fact it wouldn't enter a spin voluntary but had to be forced into one, seems to indicate good stability.

[wetrat]

spit14 is an E fighter, not an angle fighter. It's amazing for diving on stuff from way up high, but beyond that, it's so-so. I'd much rather be low and slow in a 109 than an XIV. Ki-84 is an amazing all-around fighter, so long as you have some modicum of skill. 1-on-1 I think the XIV, if flown well, can take anything in the game. It has at least one advantage on every plane. I'd say the best challenger is the XVI.

[tedrbr]

Originally posted by wetrat
Ki-84 is an amazing all-around fighter, so long as you have some modicum of skill.

Probably one of the Ki's strengths is it is a pretty forgiving plane in many regards.  A lot probably depends on an individual pilot's style as well as skill in plane selection.  I'm not a great fitr stick, and I've never gotten much out of using Spits, but I have done okay in the Ki-84 at times.

[Engine]

If you know how to fly it, it's the butcher of the skies. Fortunately, it will never be as popular as the spit16 or la7 because it requires you to know when to shift from E-fighting to low-speed flap turning, and how to sucker enemies into fighting your fight. If you just keep WEP on and try to turn with everything like a Spit, you're dead. If you just try to keep it fast and fly it like a Pony, you're dead.

[BaldEagl]

Originally posted by Karnak
And what precisely does this have to do with me?

I was one of the most vocal people advocating the addition of the Spitfire Mk XIV before it was added.  I well know it is not to be used like other Spitfires.  But a Typhoon is also not to be used like Spitfires, and it is easy to use.  The Spitfire Mk XIV fights me the whole time.

As a note, it didn't used to fight the pilot like it does now.


1K3,

History does not really agree with that.

Oops, my mistake.  Again I mis-read.  I was taking your comment to mean that those other planes never got in fights with you but Spit XIV's do which, as I think about it now doesn't really make sense.

It's been a long week without enough sleep (damn you HT!).