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Author Topic: US Citizens, how would you feel if this was reversed:  (Read 1480 times)

Offline Vulcan

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US Citizens, how would you feel if this was reversed:
« on: May 06, 2007, 05:31:06 PM »
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/australia-hands-over-man-to-us-courts/2007/05/06/1178390140855.html

Quick summary: guy cracks and copies software but doesn't use it for financial gain; all this is done in Aussie; he has never set foot in the US; the US Govt has had him extradited to face charges IN the USA?

Now, what if some country found YOU in violation of one of their laws. How would you feel being extraditing having never set foot in that country? Oh you say the US wouldn't give in to a smaller country? What about if said country kidnapped you then put you on trial?
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Offline Dago

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US Citizens, how would you feel if this was reversed:
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2007, 05:34:33 PM »
You might have worded it "stole something from someone in another country"  instead of "found YOU in violation of one of their laws".

Do you think stealing from an American company is okay if you are doing it over a computer in a differant country?

How about if someone hacked into a US based bank, and managed to transfer  a couple million out to their own country?  That okay with you?  Should they not face trial in the USA?

:rolleyes:
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Offline Xargos

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US Citizens, how would you feel if this was reversed:
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2007, 05:38:42 PM »
If an American was printing Australian money, I'm sure the U.S. would hand him over.
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Offline Vulcan

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US Citizens, how would you feel if this was reversed:
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2007, 05:41:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dago
You might have worded it "stole something from someone in another country"  instead of "found YOU in violation of one of their laws".

Do you think stealing from an American company is okay if you are doing it over a computer in a differant country?

How about if someone hacked into a US based bank, and managed to transfer  a couple million out to their own country?  That okay with you?  Should they not face trial in the USA?

:rolleyes:


But where does it end?

Say you mouth of at the King of Thailand, something hugely offensive to Thai's and a criminal offence. How would you feel being extradited and serving say 10 years in a Thai prison?
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Offline Blooz

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US Citizens, how would you feel if this was reversed:
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2007, 05:45:09 PM »
Umm...he broke Australian copyright law and was arrested by Australian authorities and then given to US authorities for essentially stealing $50 million dollars.

I don't see anything wrong.

Your implication that the US is kidnapping normal, honest people from foreign countries to be brought to justice in the USA is just a wee bit disconcerting.
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Offline lasersailor184

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US Citizens, how would you feel if this was reversed:
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2007, 06:11:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Vulcan
But where does it end?

Say you mouth of at the King of Thailand, something hugely offensive to Thai's and a criminal offence. How would you feel being extradited and serving say 10 years in a Thai prison?


You're looking for a fight when there isn't one to be found.
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Offline Shamus

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US Citizens, how would you feel if this was reversed:
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2007, 06:16:20 PM »
I would think that Griffiths beef would be with his own government, and im sure that my government would be more than happy to turn me over to Thiland if it was politically expedient.

shamus
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Offline Vulcan

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US Citizens, how would you feel if this was reversed:
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2007, 06:17:16 PM »
Well I think you guys are playing with pandora's box on this one.

The US and its citizens regularly engage in illegal commercial activities. Are you comfortable that your citizens might spend time in our (NZ) prisons should we wish to extradite them under similar circumstances?
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Offline ROC

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US Citizens, how would you feel if this was reversed:
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2007, 06:20:46 PM »
Broke international copywrite laws that your country are in partnership with?

So what?  Why is it the fault of a nation and not the guy who violated the law?

And perhaps your pandoras box logic is flawed.  Are you saying if a US Citizen broke a law that was a common law between our 2 nations, or are you saying if someone  broke a country specific law that may not be a law on the US books?
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ROC
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Offline lasersailor184

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US Citizens, how would you feel if this was reversed:
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2007, 06:21:04 PM »
If I wrong New Zealanders by breaking the law, then I expect my government to extradite me to there.



Let me pose an opposite question.


Should you be free to commit crimes in another country but stay safe outside that country's borders?
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Offline ROC

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US Citizens, how would you feel if this was reversed:
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2007, 06:21:35 PM »
Quote
The US and its citizens regularly engage in illegal commercial activities


Side note, are you truly comfortable painting with such a broad brush?
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ROC
Nothing clever here.  Please, move along.

Offline Vulcan

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US Citizens, how would you feel if this was reversed:
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2007, 06:27:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ROC
Side note, are you truly comfortable painting with such a broad brush?


It is true though. The US has been taken to the WTO court and lost in several instances where illegal tarrifs have been imposed on NZ steel, meat, wool, and forestly exports.

If you are going to extradite people on commercial activities where does it end? I'm sure every country around the world can find something commercial they have a problem with the US about. Sure the guys activities were illegal. But he should've been prosecuted in Australia - how can you enforce your civil laws outside your territorial borders without expecting it to come back and bite you hard?
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Offline Shamus

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US Citizens, how would you feel if this was reversed:
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2007, 06:31:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Vulcan
how can you enforce your civil laws outside your territorial borders  


Because the Aussie government did not tell the the US government to go pound sand.

shamus
« Last Edit: May 06, 2007, 07:27:34 PM by Shamus »
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one of the cats

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Offline 2bighorn

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Re: US Citizens, how would you feel if this was reversed:
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2007, 06:54:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Vulcan
Now, what if some country found YOU in violation of one of their laws. How would you feel being extraditing having never set foot in that country? Oh you say the US wouldn't give in to a smaller country? What about if said country kidnapped you then put you on trial?
Huh?
Why don't ya cry bout Aussies. They failed to protect their citizen.
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Offline Vulcan

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US Citizens, how would you feel if this was reversed:
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2007, 07:33:31 PM »
Ya I guess you're right there. Its probably more a failure of the aussies than anything. Still, I think it opens oppotunities for an "I told you so" in the future.
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