Author Topic: Falwell Dead  (Read 3556 times)

Offline Hap

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Falwell Dead
« Reply #90 on: May 17, 2007, 02:39:58 PM »
I always enjoy your posts Sea.

Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #91 on: May 17, 2007, 02:49:06 PM »
Quote
scottydawg
He polluted faith by dragging it kicking and screaming into American politics.


John Kennedy was attacked for being too Catholic.  Lincoln was attacked for being an infidel.  On July 4, 1798, Timoty Dwight delivered a speech urging the voters to defeat the Jeffersonians—“the illuminati, the philosophers, the atheists, and the deists.” in the 1928 election, claims were made that if Alfred Smith (D NY) were elected President he would make Catholicism the national religion.

Since when was religion out of politics so Falwell had to drag it back in?
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Offline JB88

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« Reply #92 on: May 17, 2007, 02:57:23 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin

Since when was religion out of politics so Falwell had to drag it back in?


dunno...but that broad in your avatar sure has a nice caboose.  

oops.  (our father, who art in heaven....)
this thread is doomed.
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To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. -Ulysses.

word.

Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #93 on: May 17, 2007, 03:02:07 PM »
That's Betty Grable... with a little Keyra Augustina photoshopped in.
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Offline JB88

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« Reply #94 on: May 17, 2007, 03:06:30 PM »
(and lead us not into temptation....)

dang!

(our father, who art in heaven...)

:D
this thread is doomed.
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To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. -Ulysses.

word.

Offline Mr No Name

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« Reply #95 on: May 17, 2007, 03:13:46 PM »
Seagoon is spot-on as usual in these matters.  As I said above I always liked Falwell and met him once in the early 80s when i was still a pup.  I think though that people who say that Christians don't belong in politics are wrong.  We pay the same taxes, send our kids to the same schools and just like anyone else our votes count too.  He encouraged activism at the polls because of the apathy that had set in the Christian community at the time.  After 40+ years of a liberal, approching socialist Congress, the country was unraveling because the attitude at the time was "If it feels good, do it."  He united people and told them that together, they made a difference. (See 1980 Election)

Did he make some controversial statements - you bet.  Do I agree with all of them? Nope.  Since the 80s, we have had an instant publication media.  That simply means that anything you say off the cuff is instantly immortalized.  We have become a National Enquirer, Springer Show news audience... Always looking for the bizarre, most sensational stories around and drumming those as long as the news cycle lasts.  Unfortunately the great things he did will be overlooked by a largely leftist media we have worldwide.  They have been harder on him - in death - than they ever were on Saddam Hussein in life or death.

Falwell did lead his life without the personal scandals that plagued many others and he lost face when he stepped in to help the PTL organization after Jim and Tammy Bakker had to relinquish control.  PTL organization had many theological differences with those of Mr Falwell.  He was there basically to restore moral credibility to a shamed organization.

Even his fierce political opponents who met him liked him as a person and commented favorably on his personal character.  I think that should speak volumes in and of itself.  I never sent the man a nickel, wrote a letter of support or anything of the sort but I have deep respect for anyone who is willing to stand by his personal convictions, take the fire when necessary and keep going.

Again, my very best to his family and friends and may he Rest In Peace.
Vote R.E. Lee '24

Offline DarkglamJG52

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« Reply #96 on: May 17, 2007, 03:18:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by rpm
por nada :)


De nada :-).

Offline scottydawg

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« Reply #97 on: May 17, 2007, 03:21:24 PM »
I never said that Christians don't belong in politics.  I think that religion doesn't belong in politics.  Ever hear of  'separation of church and state'?  Great idea, IMHO.

Some may bash me for being what they perceive as unduly harsh in my previous post, however, in my opinion it's one thing to be the kind of person I described if you are just a 'regular joe'.  It's another thing entirely when you are a public figure who claims to represent millions of Christians and has the kind of influence that Mr. Falwell did.  There's a huge amount of responsibility there, something I have never claimed to have, but then again, I'm not a public figure.  Nor am I without sin, but I have never preached to another about sin.

Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #98 on: May 17, 2007, 03:27:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by scottydawg
I never said that Christians don't belong in politics.  I think that religion doesn't belong in politics.  Ever hear of  'separation of church and state'?  Great idea, IMHO.


The wall of seperation was brought up in letters of Jefferson to a church congregation (In VA I think) and was meant to explain the 1st amendments meaning that the government would not require you to confrom to any official religious dogma.

Religion has always been in American politics, and will remain so as long as there is a large portion of America that considers itself religious.

You said Falwell dragged it "kicking and screaming" back to where is has always been anyway.
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Offline 68Hawk

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« Reply #99 on: May 17, 2007, 03:37:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by indy007
My parents must have raised me wrong.

Falwell was a giant sweetheart.

Good riddance.


*urd sandwich!
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Offline indy007

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« Reply #100 on: May 17, 2007, 04:16:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 68Hawk
*urd sandwich!


I've been called worse. My opinion of him hasn't changed.

It's not even left vs right or athiest vs christian. Make ridiculous comments, I'll call you a sweetheartbag. I don't care what your belief system is. If he was the Dhali Llama or Pope, and said 9/11 was because we have gays and feminists in our society... I'd call them a sweetheartbag too.


edit: Man, that's the first time in awhile I've missed a South Park reference. Giant sweetheart vs **** Sandwitch.... I must have been thrown off by the recent episode with the Biggest sweetheart in the Universe award. :( I'll also say Falwell doesn't even come close to qualifying for this award. He'd have to have been in on the Bakker schemes for that.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2007, 04:47:52 PM by indy007 »

Offline Mr No Name

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« Reply #101 on: May 17, 2007, 04:57:21 PM »
Bill of rights:


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.


Separation of church and state simply means Congress cannot establish an official religion.  It does not mean that people cannot bring their beliefs into politics.  If an idea is a good one, regardless of the source and is voted in by a majority of the voters then nothing should prohibit it from becoming a law.

Should we lift criminal penalties for murder simply because there is a corresponding commandment in the Bible?
Vote R.E. Lee '24

Offline Seagoon

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« Reply #102 on: May 17, 2007, 05:22:28 PM »
Hi Holden,

Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
The wall of seperation was brought up in letters of Jefferson to a church congregation (In VA I think) and was meant to explain the 1st amendments meaning that the government would not require you to confrom to any official religious dogma.


The Letter was sent to the Danbury Baptist Association of Connecticut, in response to a letter of concern sent by them to Jefferson shortly after his inauguration (a copy of their letter is available here ). Jefferson's letter reads:

Quote
Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.

Th Jefferson
Jan. 1. 1802.


A little background will help to understand their concern and Jefferson's reply.

The Baptists in America were at this time still a religious minority, and in the past they had suffered considerable persecution both in New England from the Congregationalists who were zealous to maintain one form of Reformed Protestant religion in those colonies, and prior to the revolution at the hands of the state governments which supported the established church, namely the Church of England, with tax revenues and which did all that the could to discourage the spread of "dissenting churches" throughout the colonies.

Following the Revolution, the general opinion in the state of Conecticut was that the rights of the Baptists to freedom of religion were conferred by the state, and thus alienable. Alienable rights can be revoked, and the fear of the Baptists was that at some point an act of the legislature might do just that. Jefferson wrote to assure them that the rights of all Americans to freedom of religion (note "of" not "from") were guaranteed and thus inalienable.

In context, therefore, Jeffersons phrase seldom has much to do with the use it is put to in the modern era.

- SEAGOON  

(Man I feel sick, apologies for any typos)
SEAGOON aka Pastor Andy Webb
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion... Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #103 on: May 17, 2007, 06:03:47 PM »
Connecticut.... Virginia.... all these places are pretty much interchangable to somebody west of the continental divide...
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Offline 68ROX

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« Reply #104 on: May 17, 2007, 06:57:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Odee
*sighs*  If you look at his life time... You'll see he didn't start losing this "respect" until he was in his 60s  ...pre 9-11

I still say if you can't find something good to say about his lifetime's achievements, then IMO you are blind, deaf, illiterate and anti-social.



Hmmm....

Thanks for the kind words, ODEE!

Please take a poll on this thread of people who agree with YOU about my post.

Thanks!

68ROX