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Author Topic: What WW2 ace do you look up to?  (Read 13200 times)

Offline Xasthur

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What WW2 ace do you look up to?
« Reply #135 on: May 31, 2007, 04:32:59 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by EsX_Raptor
Erich Hartmann padded kills lol


Nah, he was just a cherry-picker.

:lol

Hartmann
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Offline DiabloTX

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What WW2 ace do you look up to?
« Reply #136 on: May 31, 2007, 05:35:38 AM »
Gerd Barkhorn.
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Offline Excel1

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What WW2 ace do you look up to?
« Reply #137 on: May 31, 2007, 05:45:26 AM »
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Offline Treize69

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What WW2 ace do you look up to?
« Reply #138 on: May 31, 2007, 07:31:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
Gentile never broke Rickenbacker's record. Not even close, even with ground kills he falls short.


:confused:

His official total with combined air and ground kills is 27.833. 21.833 in the air (21 individual kills, 1/3 and 1/2) and 6 on the ground. My math isn't the best, but I think thats more than 26.

And personally I've never claimed he was the first, but unfortunately thats whats in the history books. Several pilots (Johnson and Bong among them) were credited with breaking it first, yet he was the one most publicised and the one most often quoted, even in well researched 8th AAF histories, as the first to do it. He just happened to have better publicists, and having a brightly marked plane, being an RAF (actually RCAF) veteran and being touted by the USAAF as part of the "Damon and Pytheas of WWII" team cemented his (erroneous) place in history.

I say, and have always said, that ground kills shouldn't be counted the same. And I stand by my belief that the escort pilots should not have been encouraged to go down after the aerodromes. They lost many more pilots this way than in air-to-air combat, something like 7:1 overall.

IMO, thats what the Tactical Air Forces were supposed to be doing before D-Day, not the escort fighters.
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Offline Nightstalker

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What WW2 ace do you look up to?
« Reply #139 on: May 31, 2007, 01:25:29 PM »
Johnnie Johnson.
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Offline Widewing

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What WW2 ace do you look up to?
« Reply #140 on: May 31, 2007, 05:58:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Treize69
:confused:

His official total with combined air and ground kills is 27.833. 21.833 in the air (21 individual kills, 1/3 and 1/2) and 6 on the ground. My math isn't the best, but I think thats more than 26.

And personally I've never claimed he was the first, but unfortunately thats whats in the history books. Several pilots (Johnson and Bong among them) were credited with breaking it first, yet he was the one most publicised and the one most often quoted, even in well researched 8th AAF histories, as the first to do it. He just happened to have better publicists, and having a brightly marked plane, being an RAF (actually RCAF) veteran and being touted by the USAAF as part of the "Damon and Pytheas of WWII" team cemented his (erroneous) place in history.


From this document:



We find Gentile's official victory tally....



It's substantially less than 27.833, even if you factor in 2 kills with the Eagle Squadron. Ground kills are not counted.

My regards,

Widewing
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My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline aztec

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Re: What WW2 ace do you look up to?
« Reply #141 on: June 01, 2007, 05:55:27 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by VansCrew1
whos the world war 2 ace that you like them most,and dose what he flew play a part on what you fly in Aces High?


Drex.
Nope.
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Offline Charge

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What WW2 ace do you look up to?
« Reply #142 on: June 01, 2007, 06:27:27 AM »
"Pretty big drawback wouldn't ya say?"

Since you seem to be interested in this particular detail would you care to tell me what kind of nazi Rudel actually was? Maybe he thought that bolchevism was a plague that should be wiped off the earth for good? I'm sure soldiers of any other nation has ever thought the same... Was he pompous? Maybe so but many skilled people are and boy he really was dedicated and skilled. Was he the only nazi in Luftwaffe? Hell no, Hitler affected quite many people in Luftwaffe before his luck ran out. I have heard claims that other Luftwaffe pilots didn't really like him but it escapes me what was the reason: maybe he remained loyal to their leader when others whimpered when s*it hit the fan? Now is that a good quality in a soldier?

Not that I'm a huge fan of Rudel but I think he was a very good soldier who believed in his principles and did anything he could to stop the Russians and surely it is quite easy to put him into some general category labeled "Nazi" without pondering what qualified him as one, and in what way he was actually different from any other dedicated soldier "with a higher mission".

I really don't know for sure. Do you?

-C+
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Offline Oldman731

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What WW2 ace do you look up to?
« Reply #143 on: June 01, 2007, 07:45:43 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Charge
Since you seem to be interested in this particular detail would you care to tell me what kind of nazi Rudel actually was?  

It would be difficult to be a "good Nazi," don't you think?

Rudel was, by all accounts (including his own), everything you say he was.  Remaining loyal to his leader when others whimpered is not always a good thing, and loyalty to a monster like Hitler may be the best single example of where loyalty is grossly misplaced.  There were enough people like Rudel around that a whacko like Hitler got - and kept - control.  The world lost tens of millions of people dead, not to mention all the other aspects of the disaster, as a direct result of this.

So, yeah, I think being a Nazi was a pretty big drawback when you come to judging someone's worth.

- oldman
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storch

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What WW2 ace do you look up to?
« Reply #144 on: June 01, 2007, 07:55:56 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Oldman731
It would be difficult to be a "good Nazi," don't you think?

Rudel was, by all accounts (including his own), everything you say he was.  Remaining loyal to his leader when others whimpered is not always a good thing, and loyalty to a monster like Hitler may be the best single example of where loyalty is grossly misplaced.  There were enough people like Rudel around that a whacko like Hitler got - and kept - control.  The world lost tens of millions of people dead, not to mention all the other aspects of the disaster, as a direct result of this.

So, yeah, I think being a Nazi was a pretty big drawback when you come to judging someone's worth.

- oldman
I agree with what you typed,  the horror inflicted on humanity by hitler should be forever condemned as should the horror inflicted by roosevelt in his support of the other monster stalin.  the biggest horror of all was in not simply pulling away from the fight between hitler and stalin then pouncing on the victor.  we can thank the communist roosevelt administration for an additional fifty years of horror inflicted on humanity at the hands of the russians.
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Offline WWhiskey

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What WW2 ace do you look up to?
« Reply #145 on: June 01, 2007, 11:08:50 AM »
I think that the fact one was a good or great fighter pilot
was not a result of what leader you did or did not follow.
the german pilots while under hitler seemed to be constricted
but in reality this was not true, they were encouraged  to be ruthless
in there tactics U.S. pilots were the most constricted
and had much less time to learn and act on there skills
there were great fighter pilots on all sides regardless of belief
or nationality!
 
Bong, my favorite was grounded during his time at war and his record does not properly reflect the constraints put upon him until late in his career when he was cut lose to fly were he wanted and by that time targets
were rare
  the sad part is the day and way  he died.


Fred Thompson for president!!!!!!    
 WHAT YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE WAS LAND THAT PLANE!!
you dont own  it ,  the taxpayers do.:furious
« Last Edit: June 01, 2007, 11:15:01 AM by WWhiskey »
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Offline Charge

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What WW2 ace do you look up to?
« Reply #146 on: June 01, 2007, 02:57:02 PM »
"It would be difficult to be a "good Nazi," don't you think?"

What ever cartoonish stereotype you want to consider him to fit.

If you compare him to e.g. Joachim Peiper you maybe start to realize what I mean.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joachim_Peiper

Rudel was an exceptional pilot and soldier what ever his political attitude was and I can understand if somebody may look up to his achievements and commitment as such without considering his character -and not many even know about his political attitude.

I admit that my other brow rose when I saw Rudel in this list but it didn't cross my mind to start commenting on the matter. :p

-C+

PS. "we can thank the communist roosevelt administration for an additional fifty years of horror inflicted on humanity at the hands of the russians."

Should we call them "Rosies"?  Another handy label. :D
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"When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams can come true. Unless it's really a giant meteor hurtling to the earth which will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much screwed no matter what you wish for. Unless of course, it's death by meteorite."

Offline JB11

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What WW2 ace do you look up to?
« Reply #147 on: June 02, 2007, 02:50:52 PM »
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Offline eagleheartone

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« Reply #148 on: June 02, 2007, 03:06:43 PM »
" PAPPY "...  No one could touch him... and most of all he didn't take anyone's Flak.  He wanted a Squadron... so he made one, and that my fella's is what ya call a leader...........
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Offline LEADPIG

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What WW2 ace do you look up to?
« Reply #149 on: June 02, 2007, 06:18:29 PM »
Richard Bong not only because i'm a 38 dweeb but because he had .......gasp 40 kills.....:O   That being said most of those German pilots were downright amazing to keep flying like they did and never get sent home and rack up those kills, the odds are against you there. I kinda also like Adolph Galland because he seemed not to be a flag toting nazi, he was always fighting with Hitler because he was a twit, (in several interviews he has called Hitler a small minded idiot,smart guy) and i also like his chivalry. He was known that after Huri pilot Richard Bader was shot down he lost his artificial legs, Adolf Galland heard this and allowed the RAF to drop him some new ones. The two men remained friends and struck up a relationship. He was known to be a gentleman (as much as you can be in war mind you) and was well respected by both sides. That being said i look up to know one, that's human anyway, maybe God and Jesus that's it.
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