Can Someone Explain Current ENY Rankings?

[hubsonfire]

The glaring flaw with K/D is it is assumed that it is an indicator of relative performance, and ignores augering, vulching, being vulched, suicide missions, and various other scenarios that can greatly skew numbers.

From Max's sig- pretty fitting, IMO.

Machines are tools and a lousy craftsman with the best tools still can't build anything worth a damn.

[EagleDNY]

Originally posted by AWwrgwy
Based purely on conjecture and speculation, I would guess you take a planes relative strengths and weaknesses and rank them based on various criteria such as speed, maneuverability, ammo loads, lethality, etc.
 Average them all out and compared to other plane's values you would calculate a rank, or ENY value.

A Hurri 2 turns good, has killer cannons, and is a dweeb ride therefore it gets a low number.

Get creative and try and figure each plane's pluses and minuses compared to others and try ranking them yourself.




wrngway

Opinions are like anuses - everybody has one, but they sure aren't the same.  My reading of ENY is that I am trying to find the ride I will have the most success in at every ENY level.  I've got a favorite ENY 20 ride, ENY 15 ride, etc. so I can go perk farming on the ENY 5 guys and build up some points to burn on the 262s & Tempests.

[Simaril]

ENY should NOT be based on KPD, because more capable pilots tend to gravitate toward more challenging rides. And a capable pilot in a mid range ride is FAR more dangerous than a weak pilot in a great plane.

Our ENY system has been around a long, long time. I suspect that things started with a common sense listing, based on perceived capabilities, and that things were adjusted from there by experience. So, while the FM2 started as a worse-rated plane than the F4F and many others, when enough good dogfighters began using it as a primary ride there was a big "perk farming" effect. The usage climbed, the KPD climbed, and its overall lethality increased. In reaction to that, the ENY was adjusted....and that adjustment (being based on the FM2 more than the rest of the planeset) made other ratings look a little off.

I bet rather than do a wholesale tweaking every time, HT nudges the numbers around and sees what happens.





Ghastly--

Don't be dissing my lady!  The corsair family is incredibly lethal when used right, even by an average fighter jock like me. If you're interested, look me up sometime and I'll take you for a ride -- just seeing one way to use the tool will make you much more successful. (Saxman, SirLoin and several AKs -- esp AKDOgg -- are very, very good in the bird. I am but a humble paduan, making myself available if I can be of some help.)

[Ghastly]

The glaring flaw with K/D is it is assumed that it is an indicator of relative performance, and ignores augering, vulching, being vulched, suicide missions, and various other scenarios that can greatly skew numbers.

True - but the good thing about statistical processing is that in some ways despite their significance for any individual flight, many of the extraneous factors would be more likely to end up as "a wash" and drop out overall because it's the pilot who's responsible for then - "augering, vulching, being vulched, suicide missions", etc.  And over the entire population of AH, I'd expect that it would affect most of the aircraft "more nearly equally than not".  (Although I could be wrong of course! )

However, I agree with you that there are certainly glaring factors not taken into account with just K/D.  

1) The big jump in K/d between the -4 (2.48) and the Typhoon (1.59) - a result of the fact that aircraft that cost perk points are flown more carefully, or just that only more experienced pilots have the perks to fly them? Regardless, something "skews" the data - just ranging them leaves us with no "10" aircraft and the upper end is already well into the tail.

2) F4U-1A (1.35) and F4U-1D (0.72) K/d.  I doubt you can find two planes that differ less from each other through the ENTIRE flight envelope in AH, and they are at the opposite end of the spectrum for K/d.   Maybe because the F4U-1D carries lots of ord, and is more often used for ground attack?  Or is it solely that the -1D is the later war variant, and only the F4U "experts" bother with the -1A?

3) Ki-61 (1.24) and La-7 (1.24).  You'd have to look pretty hard to find two different aircraft in the plane set in terms of performance, and yet they have virtually identical K/d.  Because everyone flies and dies in LA7's and only a few experten fly the KI61 regularly?  

Dunno, except that ... it might be harder to determine fighter effectiveness purely mathamatically than I'd first estimated.

Simaril - I fly the Corsair almost exclusively - she's my favorite plane.  (And I'm really jonesing for her!  I've been without my game system for the last 2 weeks while we move, and we were on vacation before that !)  I was simply remarking that I have a real hard time in the -1, much harder than seems reasonable - to me - given that I do quite well in the -1A.   But if I ever get back in the air, I'd love to wing with you all sometime.

[Lusche]

Originally posted by Ghastly

2) F4U-1A (1.35) and F4U-1D (0.72) K/d.  I doubt you can find two planes that differ less from each other through the ENTIRE flight envelope in AH, and they are at the opposite end of the spectrum for K/d.   Maybe because the F4U-1D carries lots of ord, and is more often used for ground attack?  

Yep, I think thats absolutely the explanation in this case.

As the F4U-Ds are being used more for ground-pounding than the -1A, they are much more likely to die in field ack, auger in the hand of divebombing noobs or being shot down by an unseen con on their 6 while lining up on their attack run.

Also many of the true experts/vets of this game rarely interfere with that lil MA war, concentrating instead on pure dogfighting.

[hubsonfire]

Additionally, said bombtruck hogs are often low on the water and easy prey for anything with guns, especially at bases being attacked with the CV only 10K off the field.

[Stang]

5" guns are murderous to low 1D hogs.

[Gianlupo]

Originally posted by Simaril
I am but a humble paduan

Hey! You've never told me you're from Padua (Padova, Italy)!!!!

[Seagoon]

Ok, it just doesn't make sense to me that a relatively poor performer like the F4F/FM2 would be moved up because veterans looking for a challenge choose them as a ride. Also, my experience is that the really uber-experten fighter jocks always tend to fly the late war planes while the more eccentric veterans fly the mid-range planes for a challenge.

Seems to me ENY should reflect only the objective performance factors of the plane itself. Most notably, speed, turn radius, and lethality. So the "F-16" of AH2, the LA7 should be way up there.

Incidentally, speaking of eccentric, I've been flying the KI-61 almost exclusively this tour. Nice enough plane, but nowhere near as easy to get kills in as my "top shelf" ride the LA5. The KI61 was properly ENY'd back when it was amongst the "magnificent 40s" back in the old days of one MA.

- SEAGOON

[gpa3]

I know the exact equation used for eny.

Unfortunetly this thread is full. You will need to look for my answer in some other thread due to thread balancing which is in effect at this time.

Thread balancing was enabled because hordes were posting too many times on one thread. Something had to be done to stop the evil horde postings. I am sure you all agree.

[Simaril]

Originally posted by Seagoon
Ok, it just doesn't make sense to me that a relatively poor performer like the F4F/FM2 would be moved up because veterans looking for a challenge choose them as a ride. Also, my experience is that the really uber-experten fighter jocks always tend to fly the late war planes while the more eccentric veterans fly the mid-range planes for a challenge.

Seems to me ENY should reflect only the objective performance factors of the plane itself. Most notably, speed, turn radius, and lethality. So the "F-16" of AH2, the LA7 should be way up there.

Incidentally, speaking of eccentric, I've been flying the KI-61 almost exclusively this tour. Nice enough plane, but nowhere near as easy to get kills in as my "top shelf" ride the LA5. The KI61 was properly ENY'd back when it was amongst the "magnificent 40s" back in the old days of one MA.

- SEAGOON

It makes a little sense if you look at it from HT's point of view, instead of the individual player's vantage. To us, what matters is the matchups we get into . To him, it's not the individual fight, it's the overall impact on the arenas.

The net effect of a plane includes the skill set of it's pilots. A weaker plane that starts racking up kills has an increased effect on the arena, regardless of its objective performance. From an arena standpoint, that might warrant an adjustment to return balance to the force or something. Maybe it's like applying supply and demand to perk point production, and if a plane's supplying disproportionately more perks the values go down.