Author Topic: UK Slips Further Toward Police State  (Read 1349 times)

Offline gpwurzel

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UK Slips Further Toward Police State
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2007, 03:53:06 AM »
Furball, that just cost me a clean shirt and a pack of screen wipes.......too funny......

Bruv, I found the easiest way of dealing with my chav problem is to "bump into one when they are by themselves...".....He didnt enjoy it, but I did...lol...



Reason we get so much crap from them is my wife is American......and for some reason they dont like that......so every time they start off, it automatically goes under racist crime...so at least they try to do something. I've had words (and more) with the father of one of them.....which put him back in his box....but they always have their "so brave" friends.....bah...


Wurzel
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It's all unrealistic crap requested by people who want pie in the sky actions performed without an understanding of how things work and who can't grasp reality.


Offline Hazzer

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UK Slips Further Toward Police State
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2007, 04:21:40 AM »
My father fought for five years to protect freedoms we have now!I do not want to be stopped by the police going about my lawful business ,this serves no one but a more centralised and interfering government.If the British public had half a brain cell they would crowd trafalguar sq. over Blairs attacks on are freedoms,but their to busy watching big brother-Oh the irony-and reading the sun to bother.

I suggest Bruv goes and lives in China or North Korea - Chav free! - or since he's FREE, to read any book he chooses,maybe Orwell would be a place to start.
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Offline Nashwan

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UK Slips Further Toward Police State
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2007, 04:23:07 AM »
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I'm not worried about the terrorists. It's the "chavs" that need educating and sorted out and hopefully these extra police powers can help with that


The police have all the powers they need to deal with chavs. But because chavs answer back, don't show up in court, claim police brutality, make a nuisance of themselves in the police station etc, the police prefer to use their powers on people who are not really committing crimes, like the pensioner cautioned for criminal damage for pruning his neighbour's tree, the kids cautioned for criminal damage to a tree whilst building a tree-house in a park,  etc.

It's all to do with nu-Labour's "targets".

When Robert Peel set up the modern British police force, he set out 9 principles by which policing should be carried out. The last of them was:

"The test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with it."

Nu-Labour know better, of course, and introduced targets. Every police officer has to carry out x number of "detections" in a month. A detection is a solved crime, but it doesn't matter what the crime is. A solved case of a man pruning his neighbour's tree is exactly the same as a solved murder, as far as the government is concerned. The result is, the police make up minor crimes they can solve, so that they can prove to the government they are doing their job.

But if you are being victimised by real criminals, say kids vandalising cars, burglars, shoplifters etc, then the police do not want to know. Too much effort, too few "detections" (the beauty of "detecting" the most minor crimes is that there won't be a prosecution, thus saving police time preparing a case, appearing in court etc.)

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In my opinion its not down to the police to stamp out bad behaviour in todays youth its their parents and the schools.


On the other hand, the police are increasingly giving up on investigating shoplifting and burglary, which it is most definitely down to them to stop.

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They are becoming increasingly powerless/not bothering because of the amount of watermelon they have to deal with.


That's the problem. And to keep the numbers up, they are instead focusing on people they know won't give them chit.

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If the UK slips towards a police state so be it. Discipline is needed.


But who are the police going to stop and question? The chavs walking down the road screaming abuse at people and spitting at cars? No, just like now they'll stop the sort of respectable person they know won't answer back, won't spit at them, and who'll tell them his real name and address.

Offline Dowding

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UK Slips Further Toward Police State
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2007, 04:30:16 AM »
For the non-British viewers of this thread, all they need to know is that people who criticise this latest legislation are America-hating terrorists.;)

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If the UK slips towards a police state so be it. Discipline is needed.


I agree. Discipline with a leather-based sense of fashion. We need to change the police uniform to include leather over-coats and a peaked cap. They should refer to each other as antiterrorsturmunterhauptfuhrer. That will have the general populace cowering... err... I mean have the terrorists under control!

Long live the War on Terror!
« Last Edit: May 27, 2007, 04:37:43 AM by Dowding »
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline gpwurzel

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UK Slips Further Toward Police State
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2007, 04:32:09 AM »
Ouch......bit of a sweeping generalisation there fella.........*shrug*......I dont agree with everything Bliar gets up to......personally I think he's a complete waste of breathe, skin and bone.........but something has to give in the UK soon.........hopefully anyway...


Wurzel
I'm the worst pilot ingame ya know!!!

It's all unrealistic crap requested by people who want pie in the sky actions performed without an understanding of how things work and who can't grasp reality.


Offline Bruv119

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UK Slips Further Toward Police State
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2007, 04:57:59 AM »
Hazzer  Freedom only comes to those who have enough cash to be free.

If your one of those lucky ones well done.

I have read orwell's book and my dad would comment  

"its getting more like 1984 everyday"


I don't mind a police officer pulling me over or questioning me because I know I'm a good citizen and havent broken any laws or committed any crimes.  We can argue the finer points all day.

Say in 20 years time they start bugging phones and putting cameras in your own house then come back to me.  I was just pointing out that we should be more concerned with education, crime and prevention of.  

Not a law that will give police more power to achieve the above.
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Offline Bruv119

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UK Slips Further Toward Police State
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2007, 05:02:56 AM »
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If the British public had half a brain cell they would crowd trafalguar sq. over Blairs attacks on are freedoms




2 million people did the anti-war demonstration over IRAQ.

Did that move him enough to change his policy?

Does he listen to the British people?
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Offline lazs2

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UK Slips Further Toward Police State
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2007, 09:25:43 AM »
so what is a chav?

Are you guys saying that the police can't defend you?   Are you saying that it is illegal to defend yourself?

boy... you guys backed yourself into a corner there didn't ya?   Your choice seems to be to allow people to defend themselves or to have a police state.

The job of the cop is to take down reports and stop any crime that he happens to see if he isn't too busy.   Your job is to protect yourself and your family and your property.

lazs

Offline gpwurzel

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UK Slips Further Toward Police State
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2007, 09:42:01 AM »
Chav's are the local nasty little scrotes..(Council Housed And Violent). The police have so many reports etc to fill in before any action can be taken against them (I speak from experience here :mad: ) To get anything done, basically takes about 4 episodes (crimes) to actually bring them to the attention of the police, and if the copper involved is anything like one that came out to my wife and I, he will then plead not to destroy "this poor misunderstood youth" who has just broken my double glazed front window, and called my wife, amongst other things, a potato, by giving him a criminal record. Had I the opportunity, I'd have given him more than a record........lol.....

Anyway, I'm not bitter...errr....much......

Wurzel
I'm the worst pilot ingame ya know!!!

It's all unrealistic crap requested by people who want pie in the sky actions performed without an understanding of how things work and who can't grasp reality.


Offline gpwurzel

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UK Slips Further Toward Police State
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2007, 09:43:14 AM »
Oh, and yes, the law abiding bods have been backed into a crap corner by various acts of parliament, and target driven policing.......(personally I think the police do a good job given the constraints they have, and certainly one I dont have the disposition to do!!).


Wurzel
I'm the worst pilot ingame ya know!!!

It's all unrealistic crap requested by people who want pie in the sky actions performed without an understanding of how things work and who can't grasp reality.


Offline lazs2

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UK Slips Further Toward Police State
« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2007, 09:54:40 AM »
so "chav" is a class type distinction used to dehumanize a portion of the population so that you can use more severe police tactics on them than the humans?

Don't forget... whatever powers you give your government... they will be in the hands of the next people elected... for good or evil.   You may think the current crop of cops are "restrained" and "good" but...  what happens if the next crop is not?   they will have all the powers you gave the good guys.

We had "jim crow" laws here... they were meant to keep negroes in line and not allow them to have firearms.    The good old boys who passed em never expected that white folks would some day be targeted with these same laws and have their rights restricted just like the negroes they meant to target.

If you are not allowed to defend yourselves and family and property with whatever weapon works best... you have no freedom.

lazs

Offline gpwurzel

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UK Slips Further Toward Police State
« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2007, 10:04:48 AM »
Good points Laz, I have no idea what the answer is, unfortunately, neither do our "illustrious" leaders.


Wurzel
I'm the worst pilot ingame ya know!!!

It's all unrealistic crap requested by people who want pie in the sky actions performed without an understanding of how things work and who can't grasp reality.


Offline x0847Marine

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UK Slips Further Toward Police State
« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2007, 01:09:16 PM »
In the US there is case law for "consensual contact" already

Police are allowed to randomly contact people without PC and ask if s/he can talk to you, if you say yes... you have legally agreed to a consensual contact. During which you are free to leave at any time, and anything you say can be used against you in court.

Anything garnered from that contact can be used to form probable cause for a detention. The police do not have to advise you of your right to say "no", and Miranda doesn't apply until the officer suspects you of a crime.

If an officer randomly approaches you and says "Hey dude, can I talk to you?... where ya going?..to a jihad?, got any Iraqi WMDs in that backpack??" type of stuff, you are 100% legally allowed to say "I don't want to talk to you, go have intercourse with yourself"

The police can even legally nag you, "Come on, lets talk?.. what are you hiding huh? if you've done nothing wrong".. one you start defending yourself in conversation, you've agreed to a consensual contact.

Offline 2bighorn

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UK Slips Further Toward Police State
« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2007, 01:36:48 PM »
Just put the damn ID tatoo on citizen forehead, radio ID chip under their skin and get over with.
Everybody without one of the above and those who aren't en route to or from work get to be re-educated, re-formed in one of those facilities with barbed wire...
Fear not, it's for the common good...

Hail law and order!

Offline wooley

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UK Slips Further Toward Police State
« Reply #29 on: May 27, 2007, 04:42:05 PM »
The Chav (or 'Ned's as they are referred to in Scotland) phenomenon is the biggest problem in UK society today and until they get a grip on it I will never return.

These little scrotes are allowed to ruin people's lives with little or no recourse.

Never mind the police - its school teachers I feel sorry for.