Advanced Trainer

[lambo31]

Hey guys,
 I need an advanced trainer to work with me on E-management. I don't want to bother the trainers in the TA cause I know they have their hands full.
I'm comfortable in a spit down in the dirt, but I want to learn how to e-fight(not BnZ). Due to work and family I can only make 1 night a week. Any takers?


Lambo

[Bruv119]

I find the biggest thing  for that type of fighting is judging how much E your opponent is carrying rather than your own.

That will only come with experience and lots of fights.  After a couple of turns assessing their flying style/ability you can start manipulating the fight.  Get E over them and force the fight into your favour and then go for the 6 shot.

Also dumping Energy when needed differs from plane to plane.

I would love to help m8 but i don't have that much free time either.

[SgtPappy]

I'd like some training as well. The Ki-84 keeps eating my F4U-1A up when it's a decent pilot. I know there are times when you can spiral climb against it, but any tips on co-alt, co-E situations?

Should i just pull out the speed brakes like against the La-7?

[KTM520guy]

I looked at the posted training  schedule. Looks like it's all noob training. Nothing really for anybody that can get a plane off the ground without the aid of auto take off and land again without crashing.

[Benny Moore]

Originally posted by lambo31
I need an advanced trainer to work with me on E-management. I don't want to bother the trainers in the TA cause I know they have their hands full.
I'm comfortable in a spit down in the dirt, but I want to learn how to e-fight(not BnZ). Due to work and family I can only make 1 night a week. Any takers?

Sure, I'll try.  I'm much better with someone who knows all of the basics than I am with a completely fresh player.  Look for me in the eight player server Blue Sky: Maximum Realism.  What night is it that you fly on, and approximately when (time zone, too)?

[Max]

Lambo do a forum name search for DamnedRen or TequilaChaser. Both of them are well equipped to help you. You can contact them via PM.

[Rolex]

Hi Lambo,

You wouldn't be bothering a trainer to ask someone in the training arena. If they don't have time then, they'll try to arrange something with someone available during your time zone. We do communicate.

I can meet you this Thursday evening. Just post a time and your time zone, please.

The clinics are not just for "noobs," KTM520guy. The clinic tomorrow (Tuesday) is for intermediate players also. You'd be surprised at how many people consider themselves in need of advanced training, but don't have a solid grasp of the basic flight maneuvers that are the building blocks for ACM.

E-fighting is a dance with a beginning, a middle and usually an end. Some people just react to an opponent, while others try to lead the dance. It encompasses a lot, including knowing your opponent aircraft capabilities versus your own. In the case of a Ki-84, trying to straight outclimb it in an F4U-1a from a co-alt, co-speed condition is not likely to succeed. Keeping the Ki-84 in a high-speed fight will tilt the advantage toward the F4U. The Ki-84 is most dangerous and maneuverable near its cornering velocity - probably about 230 mph. I wouldn't recommend getting slow in the F4U (from non-zoom climbs and multiple high-g maneuvers) against a competently-flown Ki-84, but some people with thousands of virtual F4U hours might.

[wetrat]

Originally posted by SgtPappy

Should i just pull out the speed brakes like against the La-7?

NO. Unless you're significantly better than the guy in the Ki, F4U-1's only hope against a Ki84 is either a rolling scissor, or getting him to follow you to 300-350 and reversing on him that way. An F4U will get absolutely molested at low speeds by a Ki, all things being equal.

Originally posted by Rolex

I wouldn't recommend getting slow in the F4U (from non-zoom climbs and multiple high-g maneuvers) against a competently-flown Ki-84, but some people with thousands of virtual F4U hours might.

They might, but I'd beat any F4U at low speeds in an 84, as would just about any other good stick. And about the Ki being most maneuverable at 230... yeah, it's pretty nimble there, but once you can get flaps down (what is it.. 170? 175? something like that), it starts getting inside spits, and keeps up with a tard-flown Hurri in a flat turn.

Another thing about Ki vs. F4U... the hog is going to have to dump flaps to have a chance at keeping up, maybe gear as well, and as soon as that happens and speeds are ~200, the Ki can just zoom to get a sizeable advantage. The Ki can stay nose-up basically until it falls out of the sky, and is easily recovered. Done right, the hog has no chance.

That said, I'd get slow against a Ki if I'm in an F4U almost 100% of the time. I'd just hope they either sucks (basically a 95% chance) or I can surprise them and land a quick shot

[TequilaChaser]

Originally posted by wetrat
NO. F4U-1's only hope against a Ki84 is either a rolling scissor, or getting him to follow you to 300-350 and reversing on him that way. An F4U will get absolutely molested at low speeds by a Ki.

ok tartew, what if you are in the F4U-1 and the other guy is in a Ki-84?  will you get molested?


and as Rolex mentioned, ALL Trainers are still open to  1 on 1 training, we just do not do the "ALL Training set by Appointment" anymore!!!


Lambo  shoot me an email if you like.............

[wetrat]

Originally posted by TequilaChaser
ok tartew, what if you are in the F4U-1 and the other guy is in a Ki-84?  will you get molested?

haha, look at my edits what someone like me WOULD do, and what most people SHOULD do are very different things haha. I'm not going to recommend TnB'ing with spits in a K4, but I do it every sortie.

[Saxman]

Pappy,

IMO, Ki-84 is probably among the most dangerous opponents for the 1-series Hogs in a co-alt and co-e situation. As stated above, in a straigh climb the Hog won't get away, and in an all-out drag on the deck the Corsair won't lose the Frank except perhaps at high altitude. I DO want to add that full flaps, the F4U WILL turn inside the Frank, however this will generally be offset by both turn rate and that the Ki-84 can maintain a high rate of climb in that speed range (however if the Ki decides to continue the lufberry you may be able to get a shot).

If you have the altitude to work with and meet a Ki-84 at co-alt and e, try and keep your maneuvers nose-low, where you'll start building energy. Franks don't like speed, especially when it comes to roll, so use low-Yos and Split-S to build your airspeed as you try to maneuver for a shot. Even at shallow angles the F4U can crank it up quickly in a dive (acceleration from ~250 to 400+ within only a few thousand feet). You can also use a diving spiral to throw off the Frank by taking advantage of the F4U's notable advantage in roll rate at high speed.

Once you've built yourself an energy advantage try to use your superior zoom to put yourself above the Frank. Once you're there, if you can STAY there you should be in a position to slash him to death with high-speed passes.

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by Bruv119
I find the biggest thing  for that type of fighting is judging how much E your opponent is carrying rather than your own.

That will only come with experience and lots of fights.  After a couple of turns assessing their flying style/ability you can start manipulating the fight.  Get E over them and force the fight into your favour and then go for the 6 shot.

Also dumping Energy when needed differs from plane to plane.

I totally concur with this statement. E Fighting is alot more about "feel" and experience based judgement than performing scripted moves to counter your enemy's moves in rock/paper/scissors fashion like TnB fighting is. Learning to judge relative E states accurately enough to know the precise moment when to chop and pull for that final killing blow lead shot is really hard to teach someone.

There are many subtle things you must both be aware of and be able to execute to be a really good E fighter. Such as hiding your E, learning how to detect someone who is concealing their E,  when and if to use flaps vertically, how to force compression and avoid it yourself when equalizing E states..etc..Plus, you must have better than average aim to make E fighting worthwhile, you won't often have the luxury of manuevering into that sweet 'saddle' shot, like you do TnB'ing in your Spit. Snap and crossing shots are generally as good as it's going to get.

Zazen

[Benny Moore]

There are few important teachable things, however, such as the proper use of yo-yos and best climb angles and speeds.

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by Benny Moore
There are few important teachable things, however, such as the proper use of yo-yos and best climb angles and speeds.

Yea, on that note, just generally speaking, if I had to offer some teachable advice it would be the following.

In E fighting you want to concentrate on E conservation first and foremost, E is Gold you should be reluctant to spend. So, in general you want your manuevers to be as low G and graceful as possible, you very rarely want to heave on the stick. G forces burns E, plain and simple. So, think of it like this. If all of your manuvers are 1 G and all of your opponents moves are 3 G and you started out in equal E state, you are very quickly going to have the E advantage.  Therefore, unless you're pulling for the killing blow be as graceful and fluid as possible, think of yourself as a soaring eagle.

This is the almost exact opposite to Angles/TnB fighting where you are almost always pulling max G's riding either the black tunnel or the edge of a stall, sacraficing all E necessary to get an immediate angle. The philosophy behind E fighting is, if you get your opponent wallowing without E the angle will be forthcoming almost at your liesure...

This is why E fighting is alot more subtle and a less direct form of fighter combat than angles/TnB fighting. TnB/Angles fighting is as straight forward as it gets;never lose sight of the enemy, match his move with a logical counter-move, do whatever you have to do to get angles for a shot as quickly as possible even if it means giving up all of your accumulated E. E fighting requires a much less direct approach often requiring you to "seduce' the E from your opponent and play "lame'duck" , hiding your E to get him to overcommit his E..Not things I could likely teach to someone...as immaculate timing, flawless E state estimation and the subtle nuances of each aircraft plays a HUGE factor...



Zazen

[FX1]

I use a combination of E and angle fighting. My approach is to keep you enemy at less than 1k and drain his E for a easy shot. Its hard to teach but can be really effective.  

Down side is that if the guy on the rope is good and you dont make a good shot then your in trouble.