109F4 love/ hate relationship

[Larry]

The K4 is not even in the same uber league as the La7. It cant out run it, it can barely out turn it, and the guns don't even come close to the La7s guns.



It takes skill to fly german iron unlike those spitfarts you fly. "when in dought just turn"

[Emu]

Originally posted by Mak333
Nah I have tried to fly one, but I think they are for the same type of "engine" buffs who will not drive any type of vehicle without a V6 or V8 engine, because they want POWER.  I understand the 109 has tons of HP, and has one of the highest acceleration rates at ground level, correct?  It's got big guns etc etc, but the thing flies like a tank.  It doesn't have half of the nimbleness that a 190 has, and you can't roll the thing for crap.  I don't know what good it does against bombers, when at high speeds... I've tried it out and it starts to stall around 500mph - is that safe to say?

Please, humour us, and do let us know what plane you fly. Your comments on both posts are way off the mark.  The 109 takes a bit of time to learn and requires patience when it comes to gunnery.  Once you have that, it is a killer's machine.

[1K3]

Originally posted by Xasthur
Any model 109 has vastly superior stall characteristics to a 190.

More stable at lower speeds, good flaps and no snap-roll stalling.


Why did HTC remove the gondolas from the 109F?

109F with gondolas were rare commodity.  They were used as a testbed for the new 109G-2s.

The old spit 5 (109F's main opponent) saw 50% reduction of cannon rounds, and 33% performance reduction.  To maintain parity HTC decided to remove gondolas:aok

[Krusty]

I don't think it was tit-for-tat. I don't think parity had anything to do with it.

They had the chance to make the entire 109 lineup representative for its time frame. That means the G-6 became the early G-6 with square canopy and 20mm hub gun. That means the F-4 became the much more common "no gondie" F-4. That doesn't have much to do with spits.

P.S. The Spit5 started out at its current boost. It was overboosted and became the dweeb-ride we all know and love/hate. However it was overmodeled for all occasions. It could not be used in any early-ish setups at all. Putting it back to the early boost was just good thinking. The decision to make it a Vb instead of a Vc (1/2 cannon rounds) doesn't affect it as much because it can still out-shoot most planes. 120 rounds is about par with 150 MG151/20 rounds on the F-4, plus they fire at the same time for a stronger punch.

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Lusche
The F is a fantastic plane, especially for furballing & base defense - but it's not a particular threat for bombers. You have to be one of the better shots in this game, one 20mm and two 7.9mm is not exactly overkill.

Excellent post, and I find it climbs just fine, not to mention the turning radius.   F4 is my fav. 109.

[Xargos]

Bf 109 F-4

The F-4 variant was fitted with the DB 601 E engine and carried the MG 151 cannon.  A total of 1,883 units were built between May 1941 and May 1942 and most surviving F-1, F-2 and F-3 sub-types were systematically converted to the F-4 standards during overhauls, but retained their original serial numbers.

The operational versions were:

F-4      Fighter: clean configuration.
F-4 Trop Trop: Fighter for tropical and dusty environments.

Rustsatze  (equipment condition)

F-4/R1   Fighter-Bomber: one ETC 500/IXb bomb rack
F-4/R2   Fighter-Bomber: one ETC 50/VIII d bomb rack.
F-4/R3   Extended range fighter: one 300 litre drop-tank.
F-4/R4   Fighter-Bomber: Rosttrager 4X24 SD 2/XII rack for anti-personnel bomb.
F-4/R7   Heavy Fighter: with two underwing 15 mm MG 151/15 cannon.


Werknummern:

6996-7660
10001-10290
8267-8806
13001-13391

This info is from the book Messerschmitt Bf 109 Recognition Manual

[Krusty]

Why would the F-4 have 15mm guns in the gunpods when the major change in the F-4 over the F-2 was up-gunning from 15mm to 20mm (the 15mm being ineffective)????

Any other sources back that up?

[uberhun]

109 f is a great plane to those who fly it well. The plane comes with all the essentials for knocking down any fighter. keep the convergence in close, 250-300. Saddle up on your victim and let loose at 275 boom dead.
Great perk farmer too!:aok

[Lusche]

Originally posted by Krusty
P.S. The Spit5 started out at its current boost. It was overboosted and became the dweeb-ride we all know and love/hate. However it was overmodeled for all occasions. It could not be used in any early-ish setups at all. Putting it back to the early boost was just good thinking. The decision to make it a Vb instead of a Vc (1/2 cannon rounds) doesn't affect it as much because it can still out-shoot most planes. 120 rounds is about par with 150 MG151/20 rounds on the F-4, plus they fire at the same time for a stronger punch.

It's not on par, because our F-4, just like the G-2 has the option to take either 150 or 200 rounds for the MG 151/20. Only G-6 and G-14 are limited to 150 rpg.

And I don't think anyone will take the 150rpg version, unless he believes that a 0.3 % weight reduction will give him an edge in a turnfight

[Xargos]

Only the center cannon was changed from the MG 151/15 to the MG 151/20.  My source is listed above.

[Krusty]

Xargos, my point is that the MG151 15mm was deemed too underpowered and ineffective. Why would they change the center gun, find THAT wasn't enough, and then add on 2 more underpowered "ineffective" 15mms to the wings? Seems much more likely that they'd use the 151/20 20mm guns which were now available. Not to mention the gondolas were essentially the same as on the 109Gs, and those never had 15mm guns on the Gs.

I just find it strange.


Lusche: I've had some "109 pilots" tell me they find the nose heavy with the larger ammo load. I guess it doesn't really even compare (apples/oranges, spits/109s) so I retract my statement. I was trying to point out that the spit was still competitive, but it's a moot point.

[Xargos]

The Bf 109 G-6/U6 had the MK 108 center cannon plus the MK 108 Gondolas, for a total of three 30 mm cannon.

P.S.  I bet she handled like a brick though.

P.P.S  I wish the Germans had put the Galland Hood on the Friedrich.

[Furball]

Mak, do you even play this game?  Are you thinking you are posting on a forum for another game or something?

[Platano]

MaK is Dilusional

[Bingolong]

Originally posted by 1K3
109F with gondolas were rare commodity.  They were used as a testbed for the new 109G-2s.

The old spit 5 (109F's main opponent) saw 50% reduction of cannon rounds, and 33% performance reduction.  To maintain parity HTC decided to remove gondolas:aok

So put the spit V back there are all ready enough spit dweebs,  few more wont hurt .  Also the E-4 and F-4 both carried bombs. Gondolas could/should be perk ords.