The dead horse named collision

[Hornet33]

OK, lets beat this thing one more time.

If YOU take damage from a collision it's because YOU hit the other plane. You didn't get rammed. YOU rammed someone.

I bring this up because yesterday I witnessed a fight between a squadie and some noob who ended up flying right into the bottom of my squadies plane. The noob dies and then comes up on 200 accusing my squadie of ramming him, and was very impolite about it to say the least.

Why don't people get this???? If I as a player intentionaly ram anouther plane, I get the damage and the other plane flies away unhurt. That's how it works. I don't know how many times I've heard people say, "That guy just rammed me and then flew away and I got killed." What a bunch of bull. If you took the damage you hit the other guy. YOUR front end saw the collision, therefor it was YOUR responsiblity to avoid the collision.

I myself have been accused of ramming and I never even seen the other plane. I had a guy run into the back of my plane and then accused me of ramming him. How is that possible if I was flying in the same direction and was in front of him? Short answer, it's not possible. He hit me and he died.

Get a grip people. If you die from a collision, it's YOUR fault, not the other guy.

[BaldEagl]

Oh sure you ace pilot.  

[Max]

Nothing to see here folks...please move along

[reeb]

HAHAHAHA toooo funny

ive had guys fly into my 6 and the game said i collided with them.

[ink]

seems reasonable, i watched a film of one of my flights and a LA7 ran into the back of my plane, his bullits missed but his plane didn't, he broke into many pieces, i didn't understand at first but after reading this post it makes sense.

[Boozebag]

Not sure how accurate this is. Have gotten two different  types of collision messages. "You have collided with ..." and " ... has collided with you". Sometimes I get the damage, some times I don't. Never can tell when, and I always try to avoid them, although sometimes when screaming through buffs it happens. That would be my bad.

[dedalos]

Originally posted by Hornet33


Get a grip people. If you die from a collision, it's YOUR fault, not the other guy.

Actually, you are the one that needs to get a grip.  When zipcoad ace dives on my six, flies through me and the system sais I colided while he moves to his next ram, I don't think it is really my fault.  If anything, it is HTs fault (cause he wrote the coad) (Thats a joke! ha ha ha, k?)

People get like that because of the way it works.  In their end it might have looked like you ramed them.  The way colisions work is not right and therefore cannot be trusted.  When I clear a spit on my right and two seconds later I get a colision message and lose my left aleron, something is not working right.  When I colide with a panzer and get a PW, something is not right.  When out of ammo and intentionaly chace a guy around trying to colide with him and nothing happens, something is not right.  When we colide HO and I get a PW only, somethign is wrong.  Get the idea?

Now go back a couple of years and see if there are any colision whines. You can argue that if changed back people will hold the triger down and fly through you but guess what! Thats exactly what they do now.  The only difference now is that I get to die while in a good fight because cherry picker zipcoad came in too fast and - you guessed it -  he ramed me but he got no damage.

[Larry]

Originally posted by Hornet33
Get a grip people. If you die from a collision, it's YOUR fault, not the other guy.

Wrong. When you get damage from a ram is because your computer sees the planes hit. The other guys computer shows them spaced apart. Its because of lag. The other night I was fighting LTARget he ramed me in a turnfight. he got a oil hit. I saw no ram. He was about 100 feet away when he ramed me. It doesnt matter if you get the "you have collided" or "CPID has collided with you" If you see the planes hit on your end you will get damage.

[Lusche]

Originally posted by Larry
Wrong. When you get damage from a ram is because your computer sees the planes hit. The other guys computer shows them spaced apart. Its because of lag. The other night I was fighting LTARget he ramed me in a turnfight. he got a oil hit. I saw no ram. He was about 100 feet away when he ramed me. It doesnt matter if you get the "you have collided" or "CPID has collided with you" If you see the planes hit on your end you will get damage.

When there is no collision message, you don't get damage from collision. Any damage you get in such a case is from enemy bullets.

[hubsonfire]

There is no collision, there are only 2 planes occupying the same space at the same point in time in one reality or the other. That is it.

[Larry]

Originally posted by Lusche
When there is no collision message, you don't get damage from collision. Any damage you get in such a case is from enemy bullets.

I didnt say any thing about "no collision message". But it doesnt matter which one you get, if you the planes hit on your end you are getting damaged. If they didnt hit on your end then you will not get damage. I hardly ever HO most of my rams are in a turn fight or with Im droping down on bombers while they are under my nose and I get to close.

[EagleDNY]

The collision model is what it is, and is limited by the lag time of the 2 machines as well.  I get it.  One machine might not see what the other machine sees.

What I think gets people upset (me anyway) is when I see "so and so collided with you" (instead of "you collided with so and so"), and then you are missing pieces and he is flying away apparently unscathed.  What this actually means is that my machine saw us collide - so my machine sets damage on me, his machine doesn't set damage on him, even tho my machine just told me he was the one who caused the collision.  

If I get a "you collided" - hey, thats my pilot error - I figure I should die.  I was pulling scissors last night and pancaked into the bottom of a fighter - my death, my fault.  Its when you get a "he collided" and then you crash that gets people mad.  Perhaps some kind of adjustment to the amount of damage you take could be made on that basis - if "you" collide, full damage, if "he" collides, lesser damage.  

EagleDNY
$.02

[E25280]

Originally posted by Larry
Wrong. When you get damage from a ram is because your computer sees the planes hit. The other guys computer shows them spaced apart. Its because of lag. The other night I was fighting LTARget he ramed me in a turnfight. he got a oil hit. I saw no ram. He was about 100 feet away when he ramed me. It doesnt matter if you get the "you have collided" or "CPID has collided with you" If you see the planes hit on your end you will get damage.

To reinforce Larry/Truekill . . .

This is what happened . . . I got too close to Larry/Truekill's plane.  IIRC, I was pulling up as he nosed over and went down.  My nose must have hit a part of his aircraft as we passed.  I got the orange message saying "you have collided".  And guess what!  I took damage!

From Larry/Truekill's perspective, he nosed over and I pulled up, but I was still a fair distance away.  He got a white message saying "LTARget has collided with you."  Guess what!  He did NOT take damage!

All is right with the world.

(Sidenote -- imagine the confusion, however, had I managed to shoot him just before I collided.  He may have gotten the mistaken impression he took damage from the white "LTARget has collided with you" message. Hint hint.)


I think a lot of people for some reason miss the orange text -- something about the color (control mode 1 selected) makes you want to automatically ignore it.

[Ghastly]

"so and so collided with you"

Any damage that you thought resulted from ^^^^ is the result of you being shot.  Said another way, anytime you see the above message, it's informational only.  If you recieved damage around that same time, you were shot and hit. Said a third way - if his FE detects a collision, any damage that's calculated to take place from the collision is on his plane -  not sent across the Internet to yours.  Only your machine seeing the collision from your point of view damages your plane.   Of course, if he's firing when he slams into you, your going to see the "so and so collided with you" message at nearly the same time as he shreds your plane with his guns, and your going to ASSUME that the damage was from the collision.

And yes, sometimes a collision doesn't mortally wound a plane (everyone has had times where they "just squeaked by" another aircraft with a glancing blow - and their plane not been fatally wounded.)  So if he lights you up, and then hits you with a glancing blow, you'll see  "so and so collided with you", he'll fly off,  and your plane will come apart.

From the bullets, not the collision.  

[dedalos]

Originally posted by EagleDNY
The collision model is what it is, and is limited by the lag time of the 2 machines as well.  I get it.  One machine might not see what the other machine sees.

What I think gets people upset (me anyway) is when I see "so and so collided with you" (instead of "you collided with so and so"), and then you are missing pieces and he is flying away apparently unscathed.  What this actually means is that my machine saw us collide - so my machine sets damage on me, his machine doesn't set damage on him, even tho my machine just told me he was the one who caused the collision.  

If I get a "you collided" - hey, thats my pilot error - I figure I should die.  I was pulling scissors last night and pancaked into the bottom of a fighter - my death, my fault.  Its when you get a "he collided" and then you crash that gets people mad.  Perhaps some kind of adjustment to the amount of damage you take could be made on that basis - if "you" collide, full damage, if "he" collides, lesser damage.  

EagleDNY
$.02

You got shot