Dueling displeasures

[2bighorn]

Originally posted by ROC
The rules of a dual are so lose and informal that you guys can argue for the next 2 weeks and your never going to prove a thing while speculating.  Agree and stick to the rules that are presented, simple.  Accept a duel with loose ends and assumptions and you are just begging for distractions like this.

Most of the duels are the ones with "lose ends" in wording of what supposed to be "gentlemen" agreement.

Few "DOs" and few "DON'Ts" are generally accepted by all who have at least a little bit of mutual respect and want fair fights.

It works fine most of the time.

Then, there always be a minority who will come out fighting unfair, taking cheap shots and after the fight pointing rules and what not.

As for the formal and semi-formal dueling ladders, they all failed. Just too much of a red tape and they have the tendency to attract too many overgrown egos and duels turn into pissing matches about who can interpret rules better, who can game the rules, how to play dirty and still not violate rules, etc...

There are guys worth fighting, and there are ones not worth fighting. No amount of rules will change that.

[Husky01]

[SkyRock]

Originally posted by ROC
While actively working on the prospect of a formal CM Supported Ladder, I am tempted to reconsider after reading this thread lol

The main thrust of my concern is the Rules Beforehand.  Regardless of what usually happens, should have happened, wished had happened and wanted to happen, there was an established setting that seems to have been set.

If those rules weren't supported, it shouldn't have been agreed to, and the duel should not have progressed.  If rules are laid out, in specific language, then it needs to be just that way.  No assumptions, no debate after the fact.

If the CM Team does, in fact, establish a ladder, I can assure you that "If" the Rules stated 15K level Merge and you were Over or Under 15k at the time of the merge, you'd be disqualified, plain and simple.  If the language is Expanded to include stuff like "15K Merge, with the freedom to move horizontally or vertically upon icon range" then you have an agreed upon modification to the original rule.  

The bottom line is, no matter what anyone says or thinks happened, clearly assumptions were made and most of the arguments against Bodhi are subjectively based on what "usually" occurs in a Duel.

The rules of a dual are so lose and informal that you guys can argue for the next 2 weeks and your never going to prove a thing while speculating.  Agree and stick to the rules that are presented, simple.  Accept a duel with loose ends and assumptions and you are just begging for distractions like this.

Reading thoughts and assumptions by some good sticks that would probably be likely candidates to enter a ladder, I can only guess at the 47 pages of legally drafted rules that are going to have to be triple signed and notarized before spawning to the runway.  Proof, right here, that any win or loss will be challenged and reduced to a text brawl makes considering a new event rather insane.

After he HO'd me in the first duel and said no diving on the merge, not one more time did I dive.  But as you can see in the hog film, he shot me because I was at 14,800 and he was at 15,100.  So in a sense, he broke his own rule.   The deal is, when we agreed to rules it was to meet at 15k and nothing was said about the merge.  After he said no diving, I was flying at what I thought was his standards.  If I dropped 200 feet before we actually passed, I can assure you it was completely unintentional!:aok

[RedTop]

Originally posted by Sketch
<-- never have gone to the DA with ya....

I went there with Skyrock.....


He got bored killin me so many times.

He never did the so called "C" word when I went.....HE just whipped my butt...ALOT..Quickly....and repeatedly.

[SkyRock]

Actually after thinking about how this type of duel goes, I think I might try it with some folks. Where you're exactly same alt same speed but pass by wingtip to wingtip and then the fight is on!  I have to take into consideration that Bodhi might have only known this way to duel and I was completely foriegn to it.  It might be fun!  I just didn't understand what the hell he was getting tiffed about!

[evenhaim]

CAUSE HE LIKES U
like kids in the 1st grade

[Toad]

Originally posted by 2bighorn
That's not quite correct. For all practical purposes, if no other agreements are made before fight, guys fly by dueling ladder rules.

Just where on the DA MOTD is that posted? Or is it in the dueling "help" file?

[Toad]

Originally posted by ROC
I can only guess at the 47 pages of legally drafted rules that are going to have to be triple signed and notarized before spawning to the runway.  Proof, right here, that any win or loss will be challenged and reduced to a text brawl makes considering a new event rather insane.

Word.

[betty]

Originally posted by SkyRock
oh, forgot:o  bucky73
and Slash27
and NKL5
and Parin
and MtnMan
and Gooss
and vanscrew
and Betty
and Schatzi
and Ka1e
and aka
and GRIM
and geesh!  WHo in the hell haven't I dueled, the list would be easier to make of those I haven't dueled!



Mark

wondered where my name was....hehe


btw...i was taught that on the merge the one that is lowest has the advantage...that is how it has always went everytime i DA someone that knows what they r doing...on the other hand...i stomped bigbob the other night and he cried sayin i was a cheater too...so mark..dont sweat it..u know your better than that

[Domin]

You ALWAYS dive and try and get under the other guy during the merge. I have never dueled any stick where that didnt take place. That is the standard way of dueling.

As far as altitude goes, yes it should be even prior to dueling. But flying straight for the merge?

FX1 is correct. Start the duel close to the deck (again co-alt prior to duel). If you are there to duel that shouldn't be a problem. That way when the merge takes place you are both at tree top level. There, all problems solved.

[Shane]

Originally posted by Domin
FX1 is correct. Start the duel close to the deck (again co-alt prior to duel). If you are there to duel that shouldn't be a problem. That way when the merge takes place you are both at tree top level. There, all problems solved.

well the plm with this is that it benefits the throttle chopping weenie more often than not, and takes away potential for other strategies.

i've been on all sides of this fence, i've let someone dive down to the deck, and kept alt... whine? sometimes, but hey, they chose to go down, i went up.  i've also dove down anywhere from 2k all the way to the deck, depending on variables.

see.. potential, variables, knowns.. that's a duel...

just as often, i've let people have an alt/speed advantage on me in the DA, showing them that alt/speed (potential E) is merely one tool to be used or used against.

[AKKaz]

Originally posted by WxMan
Although it's been years since I have dueled. The rules at that time insured that neither plane had a significant advantage. That is why an alt cap before the merge is usually in place. In addition no aggressive moves can take place that deviates from the merge level until both aircraft passes their respective 3-9 lines.  That meant no diving or climbing or early turns, you both stayed at excatly the same alt until you passed each other.

But then again I'm an old fossil.

Can't remember the last duel I was in, definitely more than a few years, lol.  This was the standard duel rule I ever knew about.

And yes, I confirm, Wxman is an old fossil.

[Bodhi]

Originally posted by SkyRock
After he HO'd me in the first duel and said no diving on the merge, not one more time did I dive.  But as you can see in the hog film, he shot me because I was at 14,800 and he was at 15,100.  So in a sense, he broke his own rule.   The deal is, when we agreed to rules it was to meet at 15k and nothing was said about the merge.  After he said no diving, I was flying at what I thought was his standards.  If I dropped 200 feet before we actually passed, I can assure you it was completely unintentional!:aok

How bout some facts.

#1.  I did not HO you on the 1st merge.  I took a quartering shot after our initial pass that you turned in to.  Call that a HO all you like.

#2.  I merged at same alt as you, about +50.  I never went above 15k, except for takeoff where I never exceeded 250 feet above.

#3.  On second merge, you were 200 feet below again.  I called you on that again.

#4.  Again, before 3rd flight I confirmed cold pass at 15K.  You agreed.

#5.  I never went 75 feet +/- of 15k on our next duel, until after you tried diving under.

#6.  You were 400+ feet below me on initial merge 1.4k out.

#7.  I got peeved and shot you in the top of your aircraft.

#8.  It degenerated into you name calling and me leaving.

If someone tells me how to post a film, I will put the whole thing up as I have it.  Otherwise I am done with this.

[Rollins]

INterested IN  seeing where this thread goes, but I thought it was verboten to bring up cheatINg

[CAP1]

Originally posted by SkyRock
Furball, Ur an idiot for backing this obvious loser punk.  YOu know the rules in the DA, I tried to accomadate his weird merge request as best I could, If I was below 15 k by 100 feet then it wasnt intentional and there was absolutely no advantage gained by it as I had roughly a stable speed and on the hog merge and he was 200 feet above me and 60 mph more, to me that would give him the advantage.  He got ownt in the flying department and is a puss weak punk for whining in here on the boards about 100 feet either way!  Just as his callous disrespect about my deceased mother on 200, he is scum whiney punk in my book and a feminine fighter at best!  You know good and gawdrn well after vis, diving or climbing is completely acceptable to everyone except this weak bait who is a skilless HO twit at best!  Now, if your just baiting a hook to get rise out of me, tehn go bark up a tree.  I have never cheated in this game and find it very insulting that a Piece of garbage like this weenie would come on here and accuse me of cheating when film shows I had absolutely no advantage on him in any merge!  If I wanted teh advantage I would have come in above 15 instead of under it, as I was flying completely level. Also, you noticed he never offered to let me pick merge and alt because obviously he cn't handle a fair fight, especially when he is getting
 completely ownt every duel!   He is now in category of Storchita the whiney coward of AH!  

Mark

some how i thinnk i'm gonna regret this.......but here goes anyway....and remember....i haven't flown in the DA.....often........
 anyway......you agreed to 15k alt, cold...to me that means 15k, flat and level. i understand you(skyrock)were only 300 ft below him(bodhi). but 300 ft is 300 ft..........its not hard at all to be at the desired alt exactly. 300 ft would from what i've seen, give you a BIG advantage. bodhi had more speed than you did.....he probably climbed to alt quicker, and got level sooner to build speed.  seriously.......why WERE you 300 ft low? it sounds like your more than experienced enough to be able to put ur plane exactly where ya want it. bodhi...i think you said in an earlier thread you have film too? skyrock....your spitfilm wouldn't download? did you take it off of here?
 and i'm not taking bodhi's side or yours.......but bodhi WAS at alt, and level. i am surprised to see this thread in here though.

 last thing......i don't really know if you're right or if bodhi's right.......so far though bodhi is being much more calm about this, yet you compare him to a favorite in the arenas(storch). you in your rants sound more like storch than anyone i've heard so far(you're not storch under a different account, are ya?)  seriously........calm down, and go back to DA.....have fun......thats what we're all here for, isn't it? if bodhi cheats, then work around it. if you cheat, then its obvious bodhi's gonna work around it too.
one last thing.......you(skyrock) are a good example of why i don't do DA....besides the fact that i suck.........as soon as you beat me, you'd be back in MA tellin of how ya "ownt" me. thats not fun. flyin and fightin is.

have a good night storch