Author Topic: CV hardness  (Read 2871 times)

Offline FiLtH

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CV hardness
« on: June 07, 2007, 10:58:54 AM »
Its so easy to kill CVs with 1 flight of bombers. Id like to see bombs strip the ships of radar,and guns, but require torpedos to sink them. It would make them last longer.

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Offline 4deck

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CV hardness
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2007, 11:36:49 AM »
Nah. Also many ships were sunk with bombs. As a matter of fact, the airplane in general dropped several bombs onto a ship in WW1 to prove the effectiveness, for the army/navy. THe 2 ships that were hit, I do believe 1 was sunk on the spot. The other had so much damage that it was scutteled. Hence, airforce. Now I dont remember how many it took, but it was a reletively low number Im gonna say under 20 to do this. I really dont feel like loooking for the link and all that right now, I just remember it from along time ago.

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Offline Oleg

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« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2007, 11:39:03 AM »
Single Lanc formation can carry 40000lb, how strong CV you want? 50000lb? 100000lb? Any increasing of CV hardness will penalize dive bombing (with real dive bombers, not heavies) and torpedo bombing which are historical tactics and will have very little effect (if any) on level bombing or dive bombing with heavies which are most unrealictic tactics.

Effect of near miss in water is a problem, not CV hardness.
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Offline Hornet33

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« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2007, 12:17:45 PM »
Battle of Midway.

Beginning at 10:22, Enterprise’s aircraft attacked Kaga, while to the south, Yorktown’s aircraft attacked carrier Sôryû, with Akagi being struck by several of Enterprise's bombers four minutes later. Simultaneously, VT-3 was targeting Hiryû, although the American torpedo aircraft again scored no hits. The dive-bombers, however, had better fortune. Within six minutes, the SBDs made their attack runs and left all three of their targets heavily ablaze. Akagi was hit by just one bomb, which was sufficient; it penetrated to the upper hangar deck and exploded among the armed and fueled aircraft there. One extremely near miss also slanted in and exploded underwater, bending the flight deck upward with the resulting geyser and causing crucial rudder damage.[45] Sôryû took three bomb hits in the hangar decks; Kaga took at least four and likely more. All three carriers were out of action, and would eventually be abandoned and scuttled.[46]

When American scout aircraft subsequently located Hiryû later in the afternoon, Enterprise and Yorktown launched a final strike of dive bombers against the last Japanese carrier that left her ablaze, despite being defended by a strong defensive CAP of over a dozen Zero fighters. Rear Admiral Tamon Yamaguchi chose to go down with his ship.

4 CV's taken out by SBD's. Granted the CV's in the game are modelled on the US Essex class which did have an armored flight deck, but a carrier is still a "soft" target in all respects due to the amount of ammunition, fuel, and other combustibes stored onboard.
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storch

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CV hardness
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2007, 01:41:23 PM »
please name any american CVs that were sunken by level bombers

Offline Krusty

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« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2007, 02:21:08 PM »
Probably all of them, had they plowed on using a straight arrow-based linear course during an attack.

Oh, wait, that never happened!

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Offline tedrbr

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CV hardness
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2007, 03:28:49 PM »
CV hardness is not the problem.  
How players use the CV's in the game is.  

The only game addition I could see would be to add radar to the cruiser, and add picket destroyers with radar further out from the task group, or separate the TG radar from the field and base radar in the game settings, and give it longer range (closer to what radar actually would have been over open water).  Maybe add a second cruiser.  If we were on big maps, I'd say add a second cruiser and second carrier.

The rest of it comes to the players:  CV's are run right up on active enemy shore batteries and fields with ord still up.  No one minds the helm when a CV is in combat to make course changes when bombers inbound.  No High, Mid, or Low CAP kept over a CV during combat operations..... everyone running to vulch.  In addition to players whining to straighten the CV out so they can take off or land, I now hear GUNNERS whining to stay straight so they can shoot main guns and puffy ack better.... never mind the inbound buffs.

CV's are fine, you can just never get players to operate them well in the game.  To most, they are just convenient spawns to go vulching and furballing from.  As long as CV's are not defended, they will be easy targets.

storch

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CV hardness
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2007, 03:37:33 PM »
the CV should not be brought right up to the beach.  it is by far one the gamiest and annoying aspects of the game.  the CV should not be able to approach any closer than 3/4 of a sector from any coastal base.  the idea of a separate task force that could approach closer and drop off amphibious elements is good.  that landing force should a CRUDESGRU  the CV should have a couple of cruisers as well as a BB with 16" (Iowa Class) naval rifles.  both the cruisers and the BBs should be able to launch and recover scout bombers.   there should be mannable guns on all naval elements and when not manned they should fire automatically.  that is to say that if there are enough players willing to man ack chairs they should be able to man every gun on the fleet.

and lastly I should be able to win the lotto every saturday and wednesday for the rest of my life.

:D

Offline Mr No Name

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CV hardness
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2007, 05:16:47 PM »
Add more ships to the task force, allow only "deep water" courses (X miles from land)  2 or 3 CVs per task force, 4 cruisers and a dozen DDs should fix it.
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Offline whels

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« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2007, 07:14:37 PM »
here is a solution.  Since CVs where not close in bombardment ships but where standoff airbase platforms. add  a Battleship to the fleet (Iowa,Arizona, Yamatto, HMS Hood, or Bizmark class).  add more picket destroyers to counter the low level suicide  strafffer planes(rediculous fighters and 110s straff killing CVs and Cruisers).

now add limited(2 to 4 per 30 mins and only can spawn another if others are ded) spawnable  Cruisers tht can leave the fleet like PTs to go into close shore bombardment. even makem cost perks, it dies u lose the perks, u return to with fleet, and exit, u keep perks. ? what perks would you use? how about either bomber, or make a new cat Ship perks. you gain perks in that cat by sinking enemy ships with bomber/attack planes or ship guns.


but we need to be able to keep the CV offshore farther out and be able
to send in hvy shore bombardment ships.

Offline Spikes

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« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2007, 07:26:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by whels
what perks would you use?
 


I was thinking, a manable 5" at each base, you start a new catagory. It costs perks. You gain perks by shooting planes down in it. and if you get killed you lose them. Make it easier to kill....1K bomb or something.
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Offline E25280

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« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2007, 08:10:11 PM »
If you are going to go the perk route -- turn gunning into a true category.  Field guns, ships guns, whatever -- shoot things down, earn perks for your "spawnable ships."

You could also add that as a ranking category and use it and only it as the standard for taking over task groups.
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Offline PanzerIV

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CV hardness
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2007, 12:27:57 AM »
I think CVs are too small in this game, they are kind of escort carriers, but they dont escort anything(also escort carriers had no defensive armor).
But we could use some larger carriers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essex_class_carrier

Offline Easyscor

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« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2007, 12:35:19 AM »
CV battles are fun from either side. They degrade into vulches when the gunners on the CA kill the fighter hangers and threaten a capture.

Harden the CV and increase the downtime for the CA. That will keep the battle rolling until one side or the other finally decides to end it as a group instead of one guy stopping it.

I have noticed better skippers in the MA lately and that the CVs last longer.
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Offline toadkill

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CV hardness
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2007, 01:22:06 AM »
Iowa class BB....

Ship perks....

Driving your own Cruiser, and employing gunners...

Directly driving Cvs....

Brilliant....

Lets just turn this game into BattleStations: Midway +ACM!

Or we could focus on improving the number of planes, and reducing the gaps in the planeset.
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