What to do about man made global warming..

[VOR]

Originally posted by phookat
Why would you want to run away, after making such a brilliant and incisive statement as that?

I didn't want to get my eyes clawed out by the ladies. I need them to look at pr0n.

[phookat]

Originally posted by lazs2
pho..  you don't know anything about cars do you?

new cars are pushing 600hp off the showroom floor... and they are clean.   cleaner than mandated in most cases... why is that?  the government?  LOL... it is progress.

I'm gonna ask again.  Would you use a cat if you didn't have to?  Yes or no?  If there were no cats, do you think we might have a smog problem in your expert scientific opinion?  There is no consumer-driven incentive for any carmaker to install cats; in fact, the opposite incentive is there.  You don't think carmakers and consumers want to save money?  Once again...on other issues such as fuel economy, everything settles out, but on the issue of emissions, everyone maximizes their personal utility by polluting more.  That doesn't mean the solution is immediate martial law and shipment of offenders to Siberia.  There are some moderate solutions.

Do you advocate anarchy?  Why aren't you complaining about the defense budget since you hate the government so much?

Originally posted by lazs2
To do something like ban them is silly crap... feel good/do nothing stuff.   algore burns more energy in a day than 20 families with hot rods.

I agree.  You gonna make another wall-of-text post attacking a bunch of strawmen?

Originally posted by lazs2
And there is the point..  all you lefties seem willing to restrict others...

I hear murder is still illegal outside of Texas.  Stupid commie laws!

[phookat]

Originally posted by VOR
I didn't want to get my eyes clawed out by the ladies. I need them to look at pr0n.

Excellent.

[AWMac]

I'm bored... too much time on my hands... got money, so why not make the neighbors wonder.

I'm half way thru laying the keel of an Ark in my back yard.  Asking Neighbors if they have pets...

*Knock, Knock, KNOCK!!!*

*Mac* "Hey how ya doing? Just checking with you all again"

*Neighbours* *silent whispers...Honey it's HIM again.* "Sorry we have no pets... The dog ran off last week with the cat"

*Mac* "Geniea Pig maybe? I need two...."

*Neighbours* "Yes 911 he's back again..."

Some people just can't take a joke.



Mac

[lazs2]

beetle/ferndale/lamchop...  you think that unrestricted auto travel for no reason other than... freedom to do so...is ok.... if you double whatever milage you got a few years ago?

you are willing to buy a $60k car and screw in some light bulbs.. you are willing to "encourage" others to do so.. what the hell does "encourage" mean?   Is it like your gun laws encourage your citizens to be helpless?

phoo..  catalytic converters may or may not have become standard equipment unless mandated.   Now they are saying that the converters may be causing problems of their own.    computer controled ignition and fuel injection would have happened no matter what and they are  the biggest reason cars run cleaner.

I am an individualist... like a less wimpy libertarian...  The govenment needs to exist to protect the individuals rights.   Before it regulates anything to protect people it needs to be damn sure there is a problem and a solution that does not destroy individuals right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.    

The early smog laws were bad regulation... they simply were laws with no ability to comply at the time unless everyone was willing to drive 4 cyl cars..  our modern V8's put out less smog than 70's jap crapboxes...  

The regulation made things worse till the ability to make things better was reached... computers...small ones to run ignition and fuel systems.

This discussion is the same... except.. we really don't know (past the sun heating things up) what is happening... so what we do about it is kinda moot.

not only that but even if we subscribe to the religion of man made global warming... pray at the altar of it...  weep and rend our garments...

What to do?  mandate things that don't exist?   a few years ago the flourecent bulbs were crap... it would have made things worse to mandate em..

Now.. they work well... people will use em to save money and not have to change bulbs all the time (we may be creating a mercury nightmare but...hey...nothing is perfect)

You have to be careful about that pursuit of happiness thing too tho... you have to be careful when you regulate what hobbies or trips people can take.   What kind of car they can drive and how much of their income you take away from em to solve the problem.

I have asked you for solutions but got nothing.   it seems the left here is not willing to tip their hand...  not willing to be forthright.

algore is ok... I will say that...  unless something changes.. I will not use more energy than him this year.

problem solved.

lazs

[Mr Hanky]

We'll be burried in our own garbage long before we're burried in ice or burned off the planet.

[Jackal1]

What will I do about it?
Nothing. I don`t put out much effort for scams intentionaly.
I`d much more worry about more pressing , immediate problems than some scam and push for power.
If I was going to wring my hands and gnash teeth it would be something worth while............
Global Panziness and Gutlessness. (Seems to be an outbreak of it)
Tainted food and water supply and lack thereof.
The scariest thing on the planet at the moment IMHO is the very distinct possibility of of a Freedomless Outbreak. (It seems to be happening at a very fast rate.)
Without personal freedom there is no life. Might as well not exist without it. Way too much of the world has been been coerced into scams to gain power and control and had most of their individual freedom taken away. In most cases it was given up without so much as an effort to prevent it. Those that don`t have it or have given it up seems to be the biggest promoters of everyone not having it.
That is scarier to me than total nuclear war.

[indy007]

I'm breaking out my micro-generation rig in 6 months (moving to a new house). That way I can run my a/c full blast while everybody else is sweating their balls off because they can't pay their electricity bills. I freakin' hate bills. I do however really enjoy getting checks back from the power companies.

[Coshy]

I've spent (or will spend over the next 30 years) 1/2 million dollars in my effort to avoid spewing green-house gasses out of my tailpipe. Ok, so saving the earth wasnt my first priority.

We recently bought a house that is literally within visual distance of BOTH our workplaces.

I think I've done my bit with moving 30 miles closer to work, but there are other things we are going to do. We are looking at the Escape hybrid as both our cars are 12-17 years old (200k on her 95 grand prix, 300k+ on my 90 truck).

The house was outfitted with energy efficent appliances, upgraded windows (forget at the moment what the upgrade was, but had something to do with sealing & energy efficency).

I'm also looking into a 'nice' weather mode of transportation, bike, moped, scooter, golf cart something that gets better than the 12 mpg my truck gets.

Am I a tree hugging environmentalist? Nah, but I do realize that sometime in the future our dependance on fossil fuels WILL bite us hard in the ass. Will what I do make a difference? No, but every little bit helps and its not an inconvience.

[phookat]

Originally posted by lazs2
phoo..  catalytic converters may or may not have become standard equipment unless mandated.

Come on.  You know they wouldn't.  There is zero reason to include them, and they are an added cost.

Originally posted by lazs2
Now they are saying that the converters may be causing problems of their own.    computer controled ignition and fuel injection would have happened no matter what and they are  the biggest reason cars run cleaner.

I certainly agree that computers have been a huge help and would have happened anyway.  But you still need a cat (or other smog devices).  Even with a perfect computer that has zero CO and HC, you are still gonna get NOx.  And again, it is absolutely certain that no one would want these devices if they weren't regulated in.

Originally posted by lazs2
I am an individualist... like a less wimpy libertarian...  The govenment needs to exist to protect the individuals rights.   Before it regulates anything to protect people it needs to be damn sure there is a problem and a solution that does not destroy individuals right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

I agree, but that last part is the kicker, isn't it.  There are times when one person's freedom has to be restrained a little to allow for another person's life, liberty, and happiness.  For example we need a law against murder.  I think you would agree that we shouldn't allow the freedom to kill anyone whenever we want to, despite the fact that this is unquestionably an abrogation of individual freedom.  The point is that this is not some stark philosophical difference between right and left.  It is a difference of opinion as to what kind of governement regulation we should have and where it should be appled.  We all have our opinions and none of them are holier than the other.  You would advocate government interference in some cases too.

Originally posted by lazs2
The early smog laws were bad regulation... they simply were laws with no ability to comply at the time unless everyone was willing to drive 4 cyl cars..  our modern V8's put out less smog than 70's jap crapboxes...

Yeah, I agree.  Like when they mandated lower compression, thus increasing knocking because of reduced squish and requiring timing to be pushed back further, and thereby causing even worse gas mileage despite the lower power output.  What a crappy time that was.  Look, I'm not gonna defend that ****.  The governement is obviously not always right and often makes stupid decisions.  All I'm saying is that there are a few situations where we want the government to step in to solve a prisoner's dilemma that we as a society have deemed worthy of solution.  They need to be thought about carefully before we get the govt involved, but we can't just stick our fingers in our ears and pretend they don't exist.

Actually the US postal service is a good example of this, in a way.  But this post is long enough.

[lazs2]

ok... so ferndale/beetle/lambchop/sybil  would gave tax breaks for ethanol if he were king..

That should solve it... I will go for that.

coshy... nice plan.. until you change jobs.   we would all like to live near work for a variety of reasons.  Unless work is in some craphole of a big blue city and then... I would rather live more modestly anyway.

You can't really buy a house that is very energy ineffiecient these days unless it is very old.    so... everyone is doing all they can.  

I don't see anyone solving the problems... tiny little feel good bandaids that would not solve the 75% of global warming that the man made global warming religious left tell us is happening... tiny little feel good nothings that are really just things to save them money in any case.

Solar panels are getting cheaper and better... not because the government said they must but because of demand... at this point... you can about break even on the payments on one compared to $0 electrical bill.... soon it will be cheaper to have em than to not...

Why is this happening?  power is getting more expensive... fossil fuels are or the government has too much regulation or the oil companies are greedy aholes or any or all of the above... pick whatever floats your boat..  it matters not... fuel is getting more expensive.

The free market will provide solutions.   The government needs to tread lightly... the hype needs to tone down..

At least until you lefties are willing to suffer...  I want to hear some real plans for suffering to solve the "greatest problem man has ever faced"

or... I want an end to global whining.

lazs

[bustr]

Laz,

One reason Al Gore may not be all that worried anymore is the link to this article.

http://www.gizmag.com/go/7341/

CO2 scrubbers. He has personally endorsed them. If they actually can be implemented on the world scale suggested, I wonder what can of worms is getting opened by needing a way to store all the captured CO2?

This looks promising for bio-deisle, but then you will still need those scrubbers.

http://www.gizmag.com/go/5544/

We have no clue to the cosmic cans of whoop arse we are about to open because we think we MIGHT have a broken thingy to fix called Earth. We thought the internal combustion engine was a world fixing thingy along with petroleum. Now look at us. We think we broke our thingy because of our last great thingy idea. Now we are getting ready to roll out another great world thingy fixing idea. Whats funnier is in the next 5-10 years a new solar technology may well make it possible to coat your roof shingles to become highly efficient solar panels. Or the paint you will use on your house to the point you can sell power back to the grid.

Laz look at global warming for it's real value to governments and business. Population control and short term turn around paridim shift power on a global scale. Don't you think in the next 10 years because of this global cattle prod to our fear and doom receptors that most of the day to day electrical power problems and emission targets will be historical google search items of no importance?

The world is in no danger of ending today or 1000 years from now.  All of the arguing and finger pointing about global warming boils down to three groups of humans fighting over the right to control the unwashed sheep masses lives. Give a bunch of scientists, politicians, and global corporations a technology assisted god's eye view of the earth for the first time in human history, do you think they are going to keep their grubby little paws off? ALL THREE groups are made up of FALLIBLE HUMAN BEINGS just like YOU and ME. They are not gods, don't walk on water and can no better tell me what tomorrows lottery numbers will be than I can.

Global warming has all the rude backside cattle prod feeling to it of a massive con job to force us into a direction THEY think we should go. Didn't the petroleum companies buy up all the public transit in LA and SanFran in the 30's or 40's to force people into automobiles???????

[phookat]

Originally posted by bustr
The world is in no danger of ending today or 1000 years from now.

That's what you think, fallible human.  Jesus has other plans.

[VOR]

Originally posted by phookat
That's what you think, fallible human.  Jesus has other plans.

[straffo]

Originally posted by AWMac
gHey

^trawll