Islamophobia and Salman Rushdie

[phookat]

Originally posted by tedrbr
Also, in many regions, many Muslims cannot read their own Koran.  They are "taught" what those in power over them wish them to learn --- and if that is a corrupted view of the Koran to suit their own purposes (like strapping on a bomb and killing women and children), then that is what happens.

I have to disagree there.  The Koran really does say killing infidels is good and that martyrdom is good.  And it does talk about the sensual pleasures of paradise.  Suicide bombing is therefore not a corruption of the Koran (in the same way that the Inquisition was not a corruption of Christianity).  But as with all religions, the sacred texts are full of internal contradictions.  You can find passages in the Koran which say "be nice to each other" etc.  So the key is to convince people to ignore the nasty parts.

How that is to be done, I don't know.  The prospects don't look good for this to happen in Islam.  But there are glimmers of hope.  My understanding is that there is a large portion of the Iranian population (youth, mainly) that is sick of all the clerical horse****, and wants to adopt a westernized society.  We can only hope that they come into positions of power and change things...before some mullah decides to start lobbing nukes around.

[Toad]

Originally posted by phookat
 Phelps' conduct is atrocious, hence "atrocity".

Semantics then?

So it is worse because they are much more free to point to scripture as they commit their atrocities (like Fred Phelps does, but on a much larger scale).

None the less, comparing Muslim atrocities to those of Phelps is quite a stretch, IMO.

Phelps makes an arse of himself at funerals. We've all read of Muslims suicide bombing funerals.

Which is the real atrocity?

[Gunthr]

Yea so how many people have you heard of in South Florida whom have had their head sawed off by Muslims? - crockett

LOL crockett, you should be able to comprehend by re-reading your own post above that the two groups under discussion are Islamic extremists in the middle east (not westernized Muslims in America) versus the religious right in America.  

[john9001]

crockett has a friend that ran a porn web site?

[phookat]

Originally posted by Toad
Semantics then?

Sure.

Originally posted by Toad
Phelps makes an arse of himself at funerals. We've all read of Muslims suicide bombing funerals.

Which is the real atrocity?

Both, of course.  But one is larger than the other, as I said before.

[crockett]

Originally posted by john9001
crockett has a friend that ran a porn web site?

I have many friends that run lots of diffrent types of websites.

[crockett]

Originally posted by Gunthr
LOL crockett, you should be able to comprehend by re-reading your own post above that the two groups under discussion are Islamic extremists in the middle east (not westernized Muslims in America) versus the religious right in America.  

Yes but the question was..


"Whos afraid of the big bad islamist?"

In which I replied no.. because the big bad Islamist has no direct threat to me or my life. However the Religious Right in America have a direct affect on my way of life, so I'm more worried about what they do.. Rather than what some guys in mud huts in a country thousands of miles away.

[john9001]

Originally posted by crockett

In which I replied no.. because the big bad Islamist has no direct threat to me or my life.  

until the day you go to the mall and a truck bomb explodes.

[AKIron]

Originally posted by john9001
until the day you go to the mall and a truck bomb explodes.

From the noise Al-qeada has been making lately that day may not be far off. I suspect many opinions may soon change and the real differences between Islam and Christianity will become more apparent.

[Toad]

Originally posted by phookat
Both, of course.  But one is larger than the other, as I said before.

Yes, you are so right.

On a scale of one to one million, one million being the worst, Phelps is about a 2 and the Muslim suicide bombers are about.....one million.

So yeah, they're both atrocities.

Where is that rolleyes thing when you need it?

[crockett]

Originally posted by AKIron
From the noise Al-qeada has been making lately that day may not be far off. I suspect many opinions may soon change and the real differences between Islam and Christianity will become more apparent.

I'm not defending them. However until you can put yourself in their situation then it's little to argue about.

Would you sit by and do nothing if China invaded the US because they felt we were a terrorist threat to the world? If a Chinese army was marching down your street or down Canada's streets after defeating our armies.

Would you not as a civilian pick up a gun and fight back? Would you not set bombs on the side of the road if you have no other means to fight them?

Did we expect the Europeans to do nothing when Hitler invaded. Was the civilian resistance "terrorists" when they fought in occupied countries during WW2?

I don't agree with what they do, but one thing is certain.. They didn't ask us to go invade their country and we are the invaders and a occupying army.

You can call it liberation and fighting for democracy and freedom until you are blue in the face. You can convince yourself all you want, however it means nothing if you can't convince the people in the middle east.

[AKIron]

Originally posted by crockett
I'm not defending them. However until you can put yourself in their situation then it's little to argue about.

Would you sit by and do nothing if China invaded the US because they felt we were a terrorist threat to the world? If a Chinese army was marching down your street or down Canada's streets after defeating our armies.

Would you not as a civilian pick up a gun and fight back? Would you not set bombs on the side of the road if you have no other means to fight them?

Did we expect the Europeans to do nothing when Hitler invaded. Was the civilian resistance "terrorists" when they fought in occupied countries during WW2?

I don't agree with what they do, but one thing is certain.. They didn't ask us to go invade their country and we are the invaders and a occupying army.

You can call it liberation and fighting for democracy and freedom until you are blue in the face. You can convince yourself all you want, however it means nothing if you can't convince the people in the middle east.

Are you talking about Iraq or just the general interest and influence in the middle east by the west? I would hardly liken Iraq to Europe unless you equate Saddam with Adolf. I will agree that the west has been meddling in the middle east since we became dependent upon it's oil. I will also grant they have the right to complain  about our meddling and understand their attempts to reject our culture and influence. However, it is in the nature of humanity to struggle, conquer, and prevail and we would be fools to imagine ourselves any other way.

[john9001]

crockett, don't try to rationalize the actions of islamic fanatics. They have sworn to convert or kill you.

[crockett]

Originally posted by john9001
crockett, don't try to rationalize the actions of islamic fanatics. They have sworn to convert or kill you.

Have we not done the same? we don't come out and say it directly like they do, that's the only real difference.

We are trying to turn the middle east into a "westren" friendly zone that our corprations can get rich on. While we may not be pushing religion on them, we sure as hell are pushing capitalislm on them and we are doing it by gun boat diplomacy.

Or better yet the term I heard a while back.. Dollar Diplomacy.

[crockett]

Originally posted by AKIron
Are you talking about Iraq or just the general interest and influence in the middle east by the west? I would hardly liken Iraq to Europe unless you equate Saddam with Adolf. I will agree that the west has been meddling in the middle east since we became dependent upon it's oil. I will also grant they have the right to complain  about our meddling and understand their attempts to reject our culture and influence. However, it is in the nature of humanity to struggle, conquer, and prevail and we would be fools to imagine ourselves any other way.

The entire middle east.  We have been putting our noses in their business since world war two. Before us it was the French and the British, and so on and so on.

How do you think Americans would feel if we were still a developing nation and some other country was milking us for our resources? Humm I guess that already happened and we fought a war over it. It was called the American Revolution and the British used to call our colonial army "Terrorists" because we didn't fight a conventional war.

Again I don't support the extremists, but I understand them, or better yet I try to understand them.