Author Topic: F4u1d (Read 1480 times)

CAP1 · « **on:** June 27, 2007, 09:10:07 PM »

hey all........i got my account locked out....lack of payment..long stupid story.....but on the good side, that gives me time to try different things where it makes less difference than in MA.

so......i've been reading a LOT about the F4U's in these threads.....but don't recall seeing anything about the 1D i think it is with cannons. so i flew it in offline practice. i still mess with the cannon planes cause i'm still somewhat of a noob, and need cannons....not as bad as a few months ago, but i need em nonetheless. so anyway, i climb out, and set my views on the climb, get a couple thousand feet above the drones, then start dancing around them. the cannons in this model seem much more deadly than the hispanos on the hurri2c? also, this plane feels like it can turn with a spit? i did however keep its speed between 200 and 300 indicated,,,,,'

but i think my questions are....who flys these..and how are they in turnfights? or big furballs? what's the general consensus(my big word for the day:D ) on these things? if you all don't like em, then what suggestions do ya have for another ride? when i come to LW, i fly the 38L right now....in EW, i stick to the hurri2, or the me110...for normal fighting, and zeke for base defense(i friggin HATE the foward view outta that tho). if i can't get any of them, then i just go pretend i'm the milkman looking for the cute redhead:O

thanks guys and gals!!!!!

<>
john

Oleg · « **Reply #1 on:** June 28, 2007, 01:24:27 AM »

F4U-1D is one of the best plane in game. It has awesome firepower, lots of ammo, can turn on dime and dive like solid brick (but zoom like brick too). The only drawback is relatively weak engine for its weight, imho.

F4U-1D can outturn every spit except spit5.

Gristle · « **Reply #2 on:** June 28, 2007, 04:14:47 AM »

the F4U-1C is the one with cannons, its a perk plane, but yes it is a powerful bird with 4 high velocity guns.

yeah you have to fly it with managment. it can pull flaps over 200 it can drop gear over 250, its a bird ment for the short turn advantage. just try to keep your e up and take those short bursts home.

Saxman · « **Reply #3 on:** June 28, 2007, 07:42:08 AM »

Between 250-300 IAS is the F4U's "butter zone." At that speed she has an insane instantaneous turn, especially if you can get out a notch of flaps, and an excellent rate of roll. She'll surprise a LOT of better turners with how fast that big nose can swing around within the first few degrees of a turn.

In an extended fight with full flaps deployed she'll turn with almost anything, however it takes practice and the right touch on the stick to get the most out of it. The F4U's low-speed stability problems are rather undermodeled, however she'll still reach out and bite you on the bellybutton if you're not careful.

Use rudder at the top of vertical maneuvers to help your reverses (once again, the F4U will surprise a LOT of better turners that way, as the rudder is one of the most effective in the game).

Set your guns in close, even on the cannon-armed 1C. Mine are about 200yds. At that range the .50cal are absolute buzzsaws, and it's a lot harder to miss, too.

In large furballs stay fast, about 300mph or so, and try to keep above the rest of the pack and make fast, slashing passes. Keep enough altitude that you can take advantage of the Hog's fast dive speed to get out of Dodge if you need to.

For fuel, in the -1 and -1A take 75% fuel. I burn both wing tanks down to 1/8 (left wing first, then right). This lightens the wings while maintaining enough reserve to bug out on if your main tank gets perforated. The 1D and 1C you can generally get by on 100, though you may consider taking along a drop tank. The -4 is a gas-guzzler, so take 100 with at least one DT, maybe even both. In the 1D/C and 4 hold your tanks while you're in the position to make continued fast passes, and drop them if you need to start turning.

CAP1 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 28, 2007, 04:22:25 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Gristle
the F4U-1C is the one with cannons, its a perk plane, but yes it is a powerful bird with 4 high velocity guns.

ok.....you mentioned high velocity cannons........can/should i be setting the convergence a bit farther on this bird? in the off-line, i set them all to 450, as i do in the hurri2, and basicly any wing gun mounted plane....the nose gunned planes i leave at 650.......when i mentioned it seemed deadly, i fired at one of the drones at about 400-600 or so, and it was a quick....possibly 1 second burst...and it went boom. i thought it was weird, so i repeated, same result......john likes these guns:D

yeah you have to fly it with managment. it can pull flaps over 200 it can drop gear over 250, its a bird ment for the short turn advantage. just try to keep your e up and take those short bursts home.

not sure what you mean by the ""short turn advantage""? does this mean go 2 maybe 3 turns, then get outta dodge, rebuild e and try again? when i flew it in offline, i mostly kept it between 200 and 300.....she really seemed to like it there......

thanks!!!!!!
john

CAP1 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 28, 2007, 04:31:24 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Saxman
Between 250-300 IAS is the F4U's "butter zone." At that speed she has an insane instantaneous turn, especially if you can get out a notch of flaps, and an excellent rate of roll. She'll surprise a LOT of better turners with how fast that big nose can swing around within the first few degrees of a turn.

i did notice the incredible turn.....was VERY surprised how it did that...was also surprised at the roll rate..........i can't wait to try this in the MA.....

In an extended fight with full flaps deployed she'll turn with almost anything, however it takes practice and the right touch on the stick to get the most out of it. The F4U's low-speed stability problems are rather undermodeled, however she'll still reach out and bite you on the bellybutton if you're not careful.

Use rudder at the top of vertical maneuvers to help your reverses (once again, the F4U will surprise a LOT of better turners that way, as the rudder is one of the most effective in the game).

Set your guns in close, even on the cannon-armed 1C. Mine are about 200yds. At that range the .50cal are absolute buzzsaws, and it's a lot harder to miss, too. ya know.......this one's really hard and strange for me.....i can't hit anything that close......i'm actually better off at 400 or so....but i definitly will try though......

In large furballs stay fast, about 300mph or so, and try to keep above the rest of the pack and make fast, slashing passes. Keep enough altitude that you can take advantage of the Hog's fast dive speed to get out of Dodge if you need to.

For fuel, in the -1 and -1A take 75% fuel. I burn both wing tanks down to 1/8 (left wing first, then right). This lightens the wings while maintaining enough reserve to bug out on if your main tank gets perforated. The 1D and 1C you can generally get by on 100, though you may consider taking along a drop tank. The -4 is a gas-guzzler, so take 100 with at least one DT, maybe even both. In the 1D/C and 4 hold your tanks while you're in the position to make continued fast passes, and drop them if you need to start turning.

thanks for the advice!!!!!!!!!!

john

Spatula · « **Reply #6 on:** June 28, 2007, 04:54:20 PM »

Try the F4u-1A - its got the same climb ability as the 1D/1C but is faster and has same guns as the 1D.
You can drop the gear at over 350 and is brilliant for causing overshoots. While not as easymode (tm) as the spit 16, it WILL give it a serious run for its money in turn-fight with those huge flaps out 2-3 notches.
The rudder authority is very good, and roll rate is very good. Climb is pretty fair tho - except on the F4u-4 which is a monster.
And by "short turn advantage" they mean 'instantaneous turn-rate' - eg how quickly it can turn through a short turn at optimum turn-velocity (say, less than 90degrees) - eg not a sustained turn where you start loosing airspeed and end up well below optimum turn-velocity and just above stall.

Saxman · « **Reply #7 on:** June 28, 2007, 06:02:32 PM »

Note on the gear:

Don't kick them out for extended periods (there are, of course exceptions). Usually, I'll drop them for a second or so at most if I'm pulling through the down end of a Split-S or any other other nose-low maneuver to keep my speed from building too much, or briefly if I need to slow down quickly to make a last pull for lead and a shot. I really don't use them for forcing overshoots, as the rudder is probably just as effective, and is MUCH faster to clear in order to build your speed back up. The one place I'll use my gear for any extended length of time is in a dive onto a target (either air to air or air to ground) to prevent overspeed and give me more time to line up correctly.

Some other things to keep in mind:

If you can execute it, the rolling scissors works very well for the Corsair because of her high rate of roll.

Use the vertical. It can be argued that the 1-series Hogs come up short in vertical maneuvers against most opponents due to their average, at best, rate of climb (and downright poor as fighters go in the Birdcage) however in my experience the F4U actually has several ADVANTAGES:

The first is her E retention. The F4U WILL keep superior climbers at bay thanks to her wicked zoom (I love watching Ponies and ElGays go vertical with me in the zoom and think they'll either escape or catch me). Advantage in straight climb largely has value on the way TO the fight. Once in combat it's zoom that counts for the most, and VERY few birds can zoom with the Hog. She will also shake off a lot of opponents in a climbing spiral (I've done this reliably against Ki-84s and P-38s).

Second, the F4U can use the vertical (pursuit rolls, high or low yo-yos, etc to keep position on almost any aircraft that will cut inside her in flat turns (especially Spits). If you're tucked in behind a target and he breaks, don't break with him. Pull up vertical, roll to put him at the center of your up or forward-up view, and use that big rudder to haul the nose over and drop yourself back down on his 6.

PRACTICE USING THAT RUDDER. Few aircraft benefit so much from rudder control as does the F4U.

SA is very important for the F4U. Know who is where and in what at all times. Know who can catch you, who you can extend on, who you can turn with, and who will cut inside you.

An F4U with altitude is a VERY dangerous opponent, because they can crank it up very quickly once that big nose is pointed down, and can zoom back up out of reach before most opponents can respond.

Gristle · « **Reply #8 on:** June 28, 2007, 06:05:33 PM »

yeah, thats what i ment:)

short turn as in, stay fast but have an excellent quick turn to avoid, or come up on a six shot. and lets you put your flaps up and zoom away if it wasnt a good idea. ?

Spatula · « **Reply #9 on:** June 28, 2007, 06:28:20 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Gristle
yeah, thats what i ment:)

short turn as in, stay fast but have an excellent quick turn to avoid, or come up on a six shot. and lets you put your flaps up and zoom away if it wasnt a good idea. ?

Pretty much.

trotter · « **Reply #10 on:** June 29, 2007, 01:02:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Oleg
F4U-1D can outturn every spit except spit5.

Well, spitI too, but you are absolutely correct.

Optiker · « **Reply #11 on:** June 29, 2007, 06:49:43 AM »

Been flyin' the F4U1-D for a while - gotta love it! The other night I experimented how fast I could go and still drop gear. Managed to drop at 475-ish, couldn't drop at 500. After the 475MPH drop, gear retracted OK - amazing!
Plane teaches me something new every time I fly it.
Regards,
Optiker

Shuckins · « **Reply #12 on:** June 29, 2007, 08:38:44 AM »

In real life, if memory serves, the gear on the Corsair could not be fully deployed at speeds above 250 mph. Full deployment at a speed of 450 mph would probably have caused structural damage. This sounds as if there is a problem with how the gear are modelled in the game.

Corsair pilots carrying out ground-attack missions sometimes used the gear as dive brakes. The gear would be dropped in a dive bombing attack. At speeds above 250mph they would trail and not lock down, their drag slowing the rate of descent.

While the Corsair had no problem outmaneuvering its lighter-weight opponents, such as the Zeke, at high speeds...it is gross exaggeration to state that it could do so at speeds below 200mph, flaps or no flaps. Any fighter jock that tried that against the Zeke or Spit 9 in a low speed, close-in, hard turning knife fight was begging to get clobbered. Push the turning envelope far enough in such a fight, and the Corsair's nasty stall habits would get its pilot killed.

Hellcats and Corsairs fought their opponents at speeds above 250mph whenever possible. Either could outmaneuver Spits and Zeks at such high speeds.

Regards, Shuckins

Widewing · « **Reply #13 on:** June 29, 2007, 09:33:10 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Shuckins
In real life, if memory serves, the gear on the Corsair could not be fully deployed at speeds above 250 mph. Full deployment at a speed of 450 mph would probably have caused structural damage. This sounds as if there is a problem with how the gear are modelled in the game.

Corsair pilots carrying out ground-attack missions sometimes used the gear as dive brakes. The gear would be dropped in a dive bombing attack. At speeds above 250mph they would trail and not lock down, their drag slowing the rate of descent.

According to the manual, max speed, gear down for landing was 230 mph IAS. However, these limits were in place to prevent damage to the tail wheel doors.

Vought designed the F4U to utilize the main mounts as dive brakes. When the pilot lowered the dive brake lever, the main mounts would drop, but the tail wheel stayed stowed.

Recommended max speed to deploy the dive brakes was 300 mph IAS. Max recommended speed to raise the dive brakes was 400 mph IAS. In practice, there was a substantial safety margin. The gear/dive brakes would cycle down at high speeds, albeit with an increased risk of damage.

Perhaps HTC would rewrite the F4U code to limit gear deployment to 230 mph IAS, but incorporate the dive brakes and the requisite limits (not much different than what we have now). Like in the real F4Us, the tail wheel should remain up.

My regards,

Widewing

Krusty · « **Reply #14 on:** June 29, 2007, 09:49:12 AM »

That could be easily done. We already have a key for "dive brakes" on several planes, and the code is already there. All they have to do is add dive brakes and make the animation be the main gear dropping. Then limit the "gear down" to 230mph.

I don't see why that couldn't be implemented, if somebody were to bribe HTC with some booze