Russkies own North Pole

[tedrbr]

Originally posted by Boroda
We have scientific stations and civilian airport on North Pole for decades now (first North Pole Station was working 70 years ago). Russia is the only country that is able to send surface ships to North Pole. So you can argue as much as you want, it's ours de-facto.

Be a neat trick since the North Pole is in the middle of the Arctic Ocean and at best on moving pack ice, that occasionally breaks up into open water during the summertime these days.  One flight over the north pole a few years ago reported open water as far as they could see one summer.



Closest land is 450 miles away and part of Greenland.  Most northern settlements include Longyearbyen on Svalbard Island above 78 degrees N latitude. The Canadian hamlet of Grise Fiord in Nunavut (Canada's most northerly civilian settlement), is a couple degrees south of that.   Alert, which is at 82 degrees N latitude is further north, but mostly military or research personnel and not  considered a civilian "settlement".

[john9001]

come on guys, russia lost the race to land a man on the moon, the cold war,  half of europe, and their navy is rusting away, let them have the north pole, it's going to melt  anyway.

[68ROX]

Originally posted by Boroda

I have read some more about the topic, and again, we are the only country capable of researching in that area, so if Russian scientists say that Russian continental shelf extends to the North Pole - then noone is able to beat it. Maybe someone had to spend some money on nuclear ice-breakers instead of aircraft carriers?...

"...we are the only country capable of researching in that area,"


Really?



Guess news dosen't get around too well in Russia...


USS Nautilus--

On 25 April 1958 she was underway again for the West Coast, now commanded by Commander William R. Anderson, USN. Stopping at San Diego, California, San Francisco, California, and Seattle, Washington, she began her history making Polar transit, operation "Sunshine," as she departed the latter port 9 June. On 19 June she entered the Chukchi Sea, but was turned back by deep draft ice in those shallow waters. On 28 June she arrived at Pearl Harbor to await better ice conditions. By 23 July her wait was over and she set a course northward. She submerged in the Barrow Sea Valley on 1 August and on 3 August, at 2315 (EDST) she became the first ship to reach the geographic North Pole. From the North Pole, she continued on and after 96 hours and 2,945 km (1,590 nmi) under the ice, she surfaced northeast of Greenland, having completed the first successful submerged voyage across the North Pole.



Robert Peary--

First man credited with having reached the North Pole, American.


68ROX

[Boroda]

Originally posted by RAIDER14
North Pole should be Internationally owned and operated by all nations similar to the ISS

Owned?! Well... Operated?! Does any other country have an airport there, offering "North Pole Skydiving" tours or simple transportation for the loonies who want to go back to Greenland skiing? Does any other country have permanent stations there, a new one every year (because of ice drift)? Can you buy a ticket to an ice-breaker for a tour to a North Pole in comfort in any other country?

Does any other country have people who simply want to play amateur soccer game on North Pole with their favorite heavy-metal band playing? And can afford it?

[Vad]

Originally posted by Masherbrum

But regardless, Putin is fast showing the world what an idiot he is.   At this point, I'd call Bush smarter, by a hair.

Why do you think so?

Right now according international law any country can claim 200 miles economic zone around coastline but can increase this zone if they prove that it's part of continental shelves. Exactly what Putin is trying to do.

Once again, we don't claim that this is our territory, we want to include it into our economic  zone! Feel the difference.

And why he is an idiot?

[bustr]

So what is the feasability of underwater only prospecting and retreival of natural resources from the arctic region??????

[Hornet33]

Originally posted by Boroda
I have read some more about the topic, and again, we are the only country capable of researching in that area, so if Russian scientists say that Russian continental shelf extends to the North Pole - then noone is able to beat it. Maybe someone had to spend some money on nuclear ice-breakers instead of aircraft carriers?...   If you don't know how to build icebreakers yourself - then you can pay Finns, they have built some for USSR back in the 80s.

Hate to bust your bubble, but the United States Coast Guard goes up there all the time. Has been doing so for a long time now. The Coast Guard Cutters Polar Sea and Polar Star have been doing so since the late 70's. The Polar Sea has parked on top of the North Pole. Also now in service since 2000 is the Cutter Healy which is our newest polar class icebreaker. She's been up north a few times as well. Funny how we can do it and we don't need nukes to get there.

The Polar Sea

So you see, Russia isn't the ONLY country that is able to operate and conduct research in the Arctic. We do it too, so I suppose the US could claim the north pole as US territory as well huh??

[Vad]

Originally posted by bustr
So what is the feasability of underwater only prospecting and retreival of natural resources from the arctic region??????

Feasability? No way, at least with mordern technology.
Actutally, we are talking about far future, next century at least.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by 68ROX
USS Nautilus--

I thought it was USS Skate to be the first to reach North Pole, about one year before our Leninskiy Komsomol (November class)... Shame on me

Anyway, the first surface ship to reach North Pole was a Soviet nuclear icebreaker Arktika (later Leonid Brezhnev later Arktika again). IIRC it happened in 1977. No ships other then Soviet/Russian nuclear icebreakers ever reached North Pole until now.

Now tell me how are you going to perform "research" from nuclear submarines. Compare it to a huge surface vessel of 23000tons displacement, with several helicopters aboard, capable of breaking through almost any ice it will meet.

BTW, do any other country have commercial navigation in Arctic Ocean?

Originally posted by 68ROX
Robert Peary--

First man credited with having reached the North Pole, American.

His achievement was doubted many times, and some historians say that first people to see North Pole were Norge zeppelin crew, (because Sedov's achievement was also doubted) but he was a real hero...

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Hornet33
The Polar Sea has parked on top of the North Pole.

I only see information on "Polar Sea" doing some routine jobs in the Antarctic, that still can't be compared to what icebreaker "Vladivostok" did during "Mikhail Somov"'s odissey in 1985. Nothing about reaching North Pole. Check your sources please and give me direct links, you know, I always enjoy finding some facts that are criminally concealed from Russian public by our bloody communist regime

[bustr]

Originally posted by Boroda

Now tell me how are you going to perform "research" from nuclear submarines. Compare it to a huge surface vessel of 23000tons displacement, with several helicopters aboard, capable of breaking through almost any ice it will meet.

[

Boroda,

What was I thinking. You are right, since no effort has been put in place to build commercial under water nucular research and recovery vessels. Only governments have the capitol to build such underwater vessels and those governments opted for war vessels.

So lets shift the question a bit. With current technologies is it possible to create classes of vessels to perform underwater prospecting and recovery of natural resources? If the giant oil recovery rigs that are consturcted and floated out into the North Sea are now a reality, is it not more likely a matter of money and cost return keeping it from happening?

[Hornet33]

It's right there in the link. This is copied and pasted right from the link. The link is from the US Coast Guard. I also personaly know several of the crew that were onboard at that time and have seen the pictures from the party they had out on the ice. Looked like a decent game of softball going on in a couple of the pictures my buddy showed me.

"On August  22, 1994, she had the distinction of being the first U.S. surface ship to reach the North Pole."

By the way the Polar class ships alternate their trips, with one going north and the other going south every year. Lately they've been going south more than north due to the higher demand McMurdo Sound research station has for them, but they do go north, and have been doing so for awhile. The Sea has 18 trips so far up north.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by bustr
Boroda,

What was I thinking. You are right, since no effort has been put in place to build commercial under water nucular research and recovery vessels. Only governments have the capitol to build such underwater vessels and those governments opted for war vessels.

So lets shift the question a bit. With current technologies is it possible to create classes of vessels to perform underwater prospecting and recovery of natural resources? If the giant oil recovery rigs that are consturcted and floated out into the North Sea are now a reality, is it not more likely a matter of money and cost return keeping it from happening?

It's sad, but there was only one power in world's history to invest in such obviously-adventurous projects (like Siberian oil-fields exploration): the USSR. No privately-owned company could ever afford anything like Soviet projects in Siberia. So it goes

Frank Herbert described XXI century with permanent nuclear war between East and West, so Western side discovered oil fields near Novaya Zemlya, drilled wells and now "steals" oil from Russkies by sending nuclear tow-subs attacked by Russian interceptors bringing precious oil to the US...

I think Vad is right, current "economical model" doesn't afford anything such insanely expensive and risky. They'll try to explore this oil fields under ice exactly when the "continental" oil will be exausted, and then it will be only used for chemical industry. "Burning oil is like putting money bills into a fireplace" as Dmitry Mendeleev said over 100 years ago.

Putin's attempt to declare Arctic as a Russian property is quite brave, but, unfortunately, we have seen national borders move several times in last 100 years... I hope that Russia, as the only Empire in human history built by collective effort of many nations that still coexist an cooperate without "colonial" policy will survive until XXII century, but instead of USCR with cities on Mars and uranium mines on Venus we'll have to keep torturing our own planet...

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Hornet33
It's right there in the link. This is copied and pasted right from the link. The link is from the US Coast Guard. I also personaly know several of the crew that were onboard at that time and have seen the pictures from the party they had out on the ice. Looked like a decent game of softball going on in a couple of the pictures my buddy showed me.

"On August  22, 1994, she had the distinction of being the first U.S. surface ship to reach the North Pole."

By the way the Polar class ships alternate their trips, with one going north and the other going south every year. Lately they've been going south more than north due to the higher demand McMurdo Sound research station has for them, but they do go north, and have been doing so for awhile. The Sea has 18 trips so far up north.

Sorry I missed that line, my fault Didn't see any mention in Wiki article too

That guys are really brave. A ship almost 2 times smaller then a new Krasin with less power etc... And still Krasin only "cleaned up" a channel after Polar Star in 2005.

At least in the Arctic if they get stuck - they'll probably get rescued by Arktika class icebreaker, if there will be one of six free of leading caravans across Northern Sea Route.

[ForrestS]

Its probally gonna start ww3.