Author Topic: Two massive car bombs found in London (Read 4681 times)

evenhaim · « **Reply #45 on:** July 01, 2007, 02:45:28 PM »

dont make me post some of the pics that i have of what nails can do when blown up in proximity to a human

Elfie · « **Reply #46 on:** July 01, 2007, 02:50:17 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by vorticon
i'd be more worried about penny nails than anything else, your more likely to get cut by the head of the nail than the point.

i've been hit by richocheted framing nails, it didnt hit hard enough to even bruise, its not like it didnt hurt.
i imagine being hit by a bunch of them while there still hot from being in a explosion would be most unpleasant, even if it doesnt do any serious damage.

of course, just using readily available BBs or ball bearings would work better...but nobody accused terrorists of being particularily smart.

I've been hit by nails that have ricocheted as well, it stung, but not to bad. Heck, I had a 16P nail in my wrist one time.....that hurt lol. I agree that being hit by a bunch of hot nails would be most unpleasant.....most unpleasant.

I hadn't thought of using BBs, but yeah, even BB's would probably do more damage than nails.

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #47 on:** July 01, 2007, 02:59:01 PM »

Nails may not be the ideal projectile. But when you put enough force behind them, they'll make a nasty mess. Propane is not necessarily the ideal explosive either. But you can sure as Hell put enough tanks off of back yard grills in a van to make a pretty big bang. Terrorists, especially when the authorities are on top of them, have to use improvised explosives. Sure, ball bearings and C4 would be most effective. But you can't find that at your corner hardware store. Buy some C4 or some torpex, or several hundred pounds of ball bearings, and someone is going to come to see you, you might get away with picking up some BB's though. The problem with BB's is they aren't as effective as bigger ball bearings. Work your way around town buying tanks of propane and boxes of nails, and you likely won't get noticed, if you're careful. Sort of like there was a time if you had a cap and some overalls you could buy a few tons of ammonium nitrate and a couple hundred gallons of diesel no questions asked.

Elfie · « **Reply #48 on:** July 01, 2007, 02:59:30 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by evenhaim
dont make me post some of the pics that i have of what nails can do when blown up in proximity to a human

Oh, no need for that. If you are close enough to the blast, nails WILL most certainly mess you up pretty badly.

My only point is that nails could be substituted for a far more effective material, such as ball bearings. Ball bearings will hold their energy for much longer than nails will and as such do more damage over a greater area than a bomb made with nails.

Furball · « **Reply #49 on:** July 01, 2007, 04:58:36 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Elfie
Oh, no need for that. If you are close enough to the blast, nails WILL most certainly mess you up pretty badly.

My only point is that nails could be substituted for a far more effective material, such as ball bearings. Ball bearings will hold their energy for much longer than nails will and as such do more damage over a greater area than a bomb made with nails.

I am guessing that nails are probably easier and less suspicious to get hold of.

Elfie · « **Reply #50 on:** July 01, 2007, 05:00:14 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Furball
I am guessing that nails are probably easier and less suspicious to get hold of.

Only until your gooberment (which is no better than my gooberment) passes a law saying you can only possess a handful of nails at one time

Furball · « **Reply #51 on:** July 01, 2007, 05:02:46 PM »

they are sharp and pointy, you will need a permit before using them, and then will have to write a risk assessment and method statement for the use of every nail.

Elfie · « **Reply #52 on:** July 01, 2007, 05:40:14 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Furball
they are sharp and pointy, you will need a permit before using them, and then will have to write a risk assessment and method statement for the use of every nail.

heh

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #53 on:** July 01, 2007, 05:47:04 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Nails may not be the ideal projectile. But when you put enough force behind them, they'll make a nasty mess. Propane is not necessarily the ideal explosive either. But you can sure as Hell put enough tanks off of back yard grills in a van to make a pretty big bang. Terrorists, especially when the authorities are on top of them, have to use improvised explosives. Sure, ball bearings and C4 would be most effective. But you can't find that at your corner hardware store. Buy some C4 or some torpex, or several hundred pounds of ball bearings, and someone is going to come to see you, you might get away with picking up some BB's though. The problem with BB's is they aren't as effective as bigger ball bearings. Work your way around town buying tanks of propane and boxes of nails, and you likely won't get noticed, if you're careful. Sort of like there was a time if you had a cap and some overalls you could buy a few tons of ammonium nitrate and a couple hundred gallons of diesel no questions asked.

Nails can be pretty bad. If I can remember, nails around explosives was the unabomber's favorite method.

cpxxx · « **Reply #54 on:** July 01, 2007, 07:11:18 PM »

Propane as a bomb? Not very effective. Take a look at this. According to journalists and police 'hundreds could have been killed' by the propane cylinders in those cars. Yeah? maybe if you they were in the car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28cUOpOtc8I http://

You tube is full of videos of nuts blowing up propane tanks with no noticeable mass carnage. As an aside. looking at all those guns in the video, maybe it's just as well British gun laws are tough. Those guys in the video could do a lot of damage with their mini arsenal.

Someone mentioned the IRA, whatever happened to them? Oh yes, they're sharing government in Northern Ireland at the moment. So much for defeating terrorism.

Elfie · « **Reply #55 on:** July 01, 2007, 08:26:28 PM »

The would-be bombers in London sure could have chosen better bomb making supplies all the way around it seems. Lucky for Londoners these particular guys were about as sharp as a tack when it comes to making bombs.

bj229r · « **Reply #56 on:** July 01, 2007, 09:26:32 PM »

Are the new outlets in Britain downplaying all this? Been SOP over here

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #57 on:** July 01, 2007, 11:13:25 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by cpxxx
Propane as a bomb? Not very effective. Take a look at this. According to journalists and police 'hundreds could have been killed' by the propane cylinders in those cars. Yeah? maybe if you they were in the car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28cUOpOtc8I http://

You tube is full of videos of nuts blowing up propane tanks with no noticeable mass carnage. As an aside. looking at all those guns in the video, maybe it's just as well British gun laws are tough. Those guys in the video could do a lot of damage with their mini arsenal.

Someone mentioned the IRA, whatever happened to them? Oh yes, they're sharing government in Northern Ireland at the moment. So much for defeating terrorism.

Realize that those videos, at least the 3-4 that I watched, showed what happens when you puncture a propane cylinder while it is near or in a fire. They do not show what happens when the propane itself builds up pressure inside the cylinder until it ignites itself inside the cylinder under extreme pressure. That is much like the difference in igniting black powder or smokeless powder while it is piled up on a cookie sheet and igniting it when it is contained in a pressure vessel. Two entirely different reactions.

Notice what happened with the small hand held (about 1 pound or less) propane torch bottle in the fire, it actually exploded. Now, imagine 2-6 30 pound propane cylinders in a burning vehicle (full of all sorts of material like plastic, foam, rubber, and oil, that burns hotter than your average campfire). While you might not level a building with it, realize they don't care as much about wrecking objects as they do about killing and maiming people. Surround those same 30 pound propane cylinders with various types of shrapnel. Further, you'll have one tank explode ahead of the others, creating the effect of making all the flammable stuff go to aerosol form (for example, containers of gasoline, kerosene, or diesel not yet burning), then causing the other cylinders to explode together from the shock wave and pressure.

Yes, the goobers screwed it up (thank God for small miracles), and yes, it isn't the ideal efficient improvised anti personnel explosive. But had things gone the other way, as in much better for the bad guys and much worse for the good guys, and it could have been really ugly.

Hap · « **Reply #58 on:** July 01, 2007, 11:53:53 PM »

I'm sure I'm merely reiterating what others have said thus far.

To our friends in the UK:

WE'RE WITH YOU!

Long live The Britannias

LYNX · « **Reply #59 on:** July 02, 2007, 06:49:20 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by cpxxx
Propane as a bomb? Not very effective. Take a look at this. According to journalists and police 'hundreds could have been killed' by the propane cylinders in those cars. Yeah? maybe if you they were in the car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28cUOpOtc8I http://

You tube is full of videos of nuts blowing up propane tanks with no noticeable mass carnage. As an aside. looking at all those guns in the video, maybe it's just as well British gun laws are tough. Those guys in the video could do a lot of damage with their mini arsenal.

Someone mentioned the IRA, whatever happened to them? Oh yes, they're sharing government in Northern Ireland at the moment. So much for defeating terrorism.

Wrong on both accounts. A punctured propane vessel isn't anywhere near as destructive as a boiled up exploding one. I have witnessed one go up in a vehicle fire. From 100ft away the "EXPLOTION" rippled my clothing. I actually felt a shock wave. The vessel made a low boom as it shot about 40ft in the air after coming through the roof of the snack van that was on fire. Obviously there was a much larger extension to the actual vehicle fire with bits of vehicle being tossed around. I don't mean doors or wheels just particles of burning interior and fragmented glass. Fair to say these particles didn't go far 20 to 30 ft max and didn't seem to travel with any great velocity, Remember I am talking of just 1 canister not 6 with nails strapped to them.

The vessel or canister on examination was peeled open to almost being flat. The base being the only part not to effected. Have you seen that vid of the ice buried p38's 50 cal shooting the 50 gallon oil drum? That propane vessel looked worse.

As for your IRA comment. It shows I'm sorry to say your lack of knowledge with this matter which surprises me as your from Ireland. To be brief and in short. Southern Ireland no longer has a "united Ireland" mandate. The IRA no longer have a united Ireland mandate. The type of government is pretty much as it was 40 years ago prior the "troubles". Perhaps if the IRA went to the ballot box 40 years ago they could have saved themselves a lot of bother but had they done that, the guys at the top of the IRA wouldn't be so wealthy right now.