Japanese debate on Nuclear Bombings

[Boroda]

Originally posted by 68ROX
THAT is YOUR well thought out, tort? See below.

I't's kinda hard to argue with mmm let's call it "dramatically misinformed" people, but I'll try.

Originally posted by 68ROX
An amazing feat, considering the war with the USSR didn't begin until June 22 of that year...with the Luftwaffe destroying over 90% of then operational aircraft in the first few days of the offensive.  With total air superiority on the front by the Luftwaffe, you are saying that SOVIET BOMBERS (at distance far exceeding a Tupelov's range) bombed Berlin?

PLEASE send us some of the weed you are smoking dude.

First Soviet bomb strike on Berlin: Aug 7th-8th 1941, 1st MTAP KBF, commander - col. Preobrazhenskiy, from Kogul airfield at Saaremaa (Esel) island.
 

Originally posted by 68ROX
.........enough to know someone who is brain-washed when I see one.

I have read historic records on the subject from authors from the USSR, USA, UK, Germany, Poland, the Czech Republic, Japan, Italy, and Romania.

Soviet books were exchanged with an amateur radio friend in Minsk.

You exchanged books on the short-wave? Can you even read Cyrillic letters, dude? Don't make me laugh. Name one book here please.

As I said: Western books were translated and printed here since 1950s.

Originally posted by 68ROX
I recommend another author you might enjoy....Alexander Solzinytzen, you probably havent heard of him though.

He's spelled "Solzhenitsyn" or Ñîëæåíèöèí in Cyrillic. I read a lot by that author. He already admitted that "Archipelago" was mostly a figment of his imagination, especially when it comes to numbers.

You guys still live in some cold-war reservation, don't you?...

Originally posted by 68ROX
At this point I have no CLUE where you are getting your facts.  

Numbers?  Numbers?

Husky: 3 divisions (I may be wrong, don't want to look for Omar Bradley's "Soldier's Diary" on my bookshelves, I hope you know who that guy was) compared to 300+ divisions deployed by USSR.

Originally posted by 68ROX
What are numbers when by his own admission, General Georgi Zhukov admitted that he forced infantry to go in advance of armored units to clear the way of mines...so by sacrificeing his own men to death, he was able to spare more tanks.

Eisenhower nearly threw up when Zhukov told him that.

Again the money for the fish You repeat the same old cold-war bull****. Zhukov explained that removing mine-fields could lead to bigger losses and losing tactical advantage. And in fact it was infantry attacking over anti-tank mines. I hope you know that anti-tank mines can't be detonated by load less then 3-5 tons.

Conclusion: opponent badly misinformed, ignorant and repeating silly cold-war propaganda fairy-tales. Further conversation considered useless unless he names at least some books he read from Soviet side, ISBNs will be enough.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by MiloMorai
Was talking about the war of 1905.

1904 war.

Russia at that time was far behind the West, but we still own 1/7th of the world's land, we survived 2 total wars and are still doing pretty well.

Originally posted by MiloMorai
What does your brainwashing tell you about the Allied air offensive against Germany? Lucky for the commies that there was, for the commies would not have got as far as they did.

Allied air offensive against Germany didn't make any significant influence on German industrial production. Many Western sources admit it, you should simply look at German military industry statistics, it should be easy to find on the Net. The game wasn't worth the candles. What I really love is that in 1945 "allies" targeted cities that were supposed to be in Soviet occupation zone, like Dresden. So it goes (if you understand what i mean).

[MiloMorai]

Originally posted by Boroda
Husky: 3 divisions (I may be wrong, don't want to look for Omar Bradley's "Soldier's Diary" on my bookshelves, I hope you know who that guy was) compared to 300+ divisions deployed by USSR.

Are you ever wrong!

 Allied 15th Army Group

Under the command of General Sir Harold Alexander.

U.S. 7th Army

Commanded by Lieutenant General George Smith Patton.

    * 1st Ranger Battalion
    * 3d Ranger Battalion
    * 4th Ranger Battalion
    * 70th Tank Battalion
    * 753rd Tank Battalion
    * 39th Engineer Regiment
    * 540th Engineer Shore Regiment
    * 5th Armored Artillery Group
          o 58th Armored Field Artillery Battalion
          o 62nd Armored Field Artillery Battalion
          o 65th Armored Field Artillery Battalion
    * 17th Artillery Regiment
    * 36th Artillery Regiment
    * 77th Artillery Regiment
    * 178th Artillery Regiment
    * Free French 4th Morrocan Tabor

U.S. II Corps

Commanded by Lieutenant General Omar Nelson Bradley.

    * U.S. 1st Infantry Division
      Initially commanded by Major General Terry de la Mesa Allen. He was succeeded by Major General Clarence R. Huebner on August 7.
          o 16th Infantry Regiment
          o 18th Infantry Regiment
          o 26th Infantry Regiment
          o 5th Field Artillery Battalion
          o 7th Field Artillery Battalion
          o 32d Field Artillery Battalion
          o 33d Field Artillery Battalion
          o 1st Engineer Combat Battalion
          o 1st Reconnaissance Troop

    * U.S. 9th Infantry Division
      Commanded by Major General Manton Sprague Eddy.
          o 39th Infantry Regiment
          o 47th Infantry Regiment
          o 60th Infantry Regiment
          o 26th Field Artillery Battalion
          o 34th Field Artillery Battalion
          o 60th Field Artillery Battalion
          o 84th Field Artillery Battalion
          o 15th Engineer Combat Battalion
          o 42nd Anti-Aircraft Battalion
          o 9th Reconnaissance Troop

    * U.S. 45th Infantry Division
      Commanded by Major General Troy Houston Middleton.
          o 157th Infantry Regiment
          o 179th Infantry Regiment
          o 180th Infantry Regiment
          o 158th Field Artillery Battalion
          o 160th Field Artillery Battalion
          o 171st Field Artillery Battalion
          o 189th Field Artillery Battalion
          o 120th Engineer Combat Battalion
          o 45th Reconnaissance Troop

U.S. Provisional Corps

Commanded by Major General Geoffrey Keyes.

    * U.S. 2d Armored Division
      Commanded by Major-General Hugh J. Gaffey. The Divisional formations were placed under the Combat Commands as needed.
          o Combat Command A
          o Combat Command B
          o 41st Armored Infantry Regiment
          o 66th Armored Regiment
          o 67th Armored Regiment
          o 14th Armored Field Artillery Battalion
          o 78th Armored Field Artillery Battalion
          o 92d Armored Field Artillery Battalion
          o 17th Armored Engineer Battalion
          o 82d Armored Reconnaissance Battalion

    * U.S. 3d Infantry Division
      Commanded by Major-General Lucian King Truscott, Jr.
          o 7th Infantry Regiment
          o 15th Infantry Regiment
          o 30th Infantry Regiment
          o 9th Field Artillery Battalion
          o 10th Field Artillery Battalion
          o 39th Field Artillery Battalion
          o 41st Field Artillery Battalion
          o 10th Engineer Combat Battalion

    * U.S. 82nd Airborne Division
      Commanded by Major-General Matthew Bunker Ridgway. The 509th Parachute Battalion was held in reserve and never saw action.
          o 504th Parachute Infantry Regiment
          o 505th Parachute Infantry Regiment
          o 325th Glider Infantry Regiment
          o 376th Parachute Field Artillery Battalion
          o 456th Parachute Field Artillery Battalion
          o 319th Glider Field Artillery Battalion
          o 320th Glider Field Artillery Battalion
          o 307th Airborne Engineer Battalion
          o 80th Airborne Anti-Aircraft Battalion

[MiloMorai]

British 8th Army

Under the command of General Bernard Law Montgomery. The British 46th Infantry Division formed a floating reserve, but did not participate in the Sicily campaign.

Army Troops

    * British Number 2 Special Air Service Paratroop Battalion
    * British Number 3 Commando Battalion
    * British Number 40 Royal Marine Commando Battalion
    * British Number 41 Royal Marine Commando Battalion
    * 3 companies 2nd/7th Battalion, The Middlesex Regiment (Duke of Cambridge's Own)
    * 2nd/4th Battalion, The Hampshire Regiment
    * 1st Battalion, The Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders
    * 2nd Battalion, The Highland Light Infantry
    * 1st Battalion, The Welch Regiment
    * 7th Battalion, Royal Marines

British XIII Corps

Commanded by Lieutenant-General Miles Dempsey.

    * 105th Anti-Tank Regiment, Royal Artillery
    * 6th Army Group Royal Artillery
          o 24th Armored Field Regiment, Royal Artillery
          o 98th Armored Field Regiment, Royal Artillery
          o 111th Field Regiment, Royal Artillery
          o 66th Medium Regiment, Royal Artillery
          o 75th Medium Regiment, Royal Artillery
          o 80th Medium Regiment, Royal Artillery

    * British 5th Infantry Division
      Commanded by Major-General Horatio Pettus Mackintosh Berney-Ficklin (later replaced by Gerard Bucknall).
          o 13th Infantry Brigade
          o 15th Infantry Brigade
          o 17th Infantry Brigade
          o 91st Field Regiment, Royal Artillery
          o 92nd Field Regiment, Royal Artillery
          o 156th Field Regiment, Royal Artillery
          o 52nd Anti-Tank Regiment, Royal Artillery
          o 18th Light Antiaircraft Regiment, Royal Artillery
          o 7th Battalion, The Cheshire Regiment

    * British 50th (Northumbrian) Infantry Division
      Commanded by Major-General Sidney Kirkman.
          o 69th Infantry Brigade
          o 151st Infantry Brigade
          o 168th Infantry Brigade
          o 74th Field Regiment, Royal Artillery
          o 90th Field Regiment, Royal Artillery
          o 124th Field Regiment, Royal Artillery
          o 102nd (Northumberland Hussars) Anti-Tank Regiment, Royal Artillery
          o 25th Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment, Royal Artillery
          o 2nd Battalion The Cheshire Regiment (MG)

    * British 78th Infantry Division
      Commanded by Major-General Vyvyan Evelegh.
          o 11th Infantry Brigade
          o 36th Infantry Brigade
          o 38th Infantry Brigade
          o 17th Field Regiment, Royal Artillery
          o 132nd Field Regiment, Royal Artillery
          o 138th Field Regiment, Royal Artillery
          o 64th Anti-Tank Regiment, 142nd Field Regiment, RA
          o 49th Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment, Royal Artillery
          o 1st Battalion, Kensington Regiment (Princess Louise's)

    * British 1st Airborne Division
      Commanded by Major-General George F. Hopkinson. Did not participate as a division.
          o British 1st Airlanding Brigade
          o British 1st Parachute Brigade
          o 1st Airlanding Light Regiment, Royal Artillery

    * British 4th Armoured Brigade
          o 3rd County of London Yeomanry (The Sharpshooters)
          o 44th Royal Tank Regiment
          o A Squadron, 1st (Royal) Dragoons

British XXX Corps

Commanded by Lieutenant-General Sir Oliver Leese.

    * 73rd Anti-Tank Regiment, Royal Artillery
    * 5th Army Group Royal Artillery
          o 57th Field Regiment, Royal Artillery
          o 58th Field Regiment, Royal Artillery
          o 78th Field Regiment, Royal Artillery
          o 7th Medium Regiment, Royal Artillery
          o 64th Medium Regiment, Royal Artillery
          o 70th Medium Regiment, Royal Artillery
          o 11th (Honourable Artillery Company) Royal Horse Artillery
          o 142nd Armoured Field Regiment, Royal Artillery

    * 1st Canadian Infantry Division
      Commanded by Major-General Guy Granville Simonds.
          o 1st Canadian Infantry Brigade
                + The Royal Canadian Regiment
                + Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment
                + 48th Highlanders of Canada
          o 2nd Canadian Infantry Brigade
                + Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry
                + Seaforth Highlanders of Canada
                + Loyal Edmonton Regiment
          o 3rd Canadian Infantry Brigade
                + Royal 22e Régiment
                + Carleton and York Regiment
                + West Nova Scotia Regiment
          o 1st Field Regiment, Royal Canadian Horse Artillery
          o 2nd Field Regiment, Royal Canadian Artillery
          o 3rd Field Regiment, Royal Canadian Artillery
          o 1st Battalion, The Saskatoon Light Infantry (Machine Gun)
          o 1st Anti-Tank Regiment, Royal Canadian Artillery
          o 2nd Light Anti-Tank Regiment, Royal Canadian Artillery
          o 4th Reconnaissance Regiment (4th Princess Louise Dragoon Guards)

    * 1st Canadian Army Tank Brigade
          o 11th Armoured Regiment (The Ontario Regiment)
          o 12th Armoured Regiment (The Three Rivers Regiment)
          o 14th Armoured Regiment (The Calgary Regiment)

    * British 51st (Highland) Infantry Division
      Commanded by Major-General Douglas Wimberley.
          o 152nd Infantry Brigade
          o 153rd Infantry Brigade
          o 154th Infantry Brigade
          o 126th Field Regiment, Royal Artillery
          o 127th Field Regiment, Royal Artillery
          o 128th Field Regiment, Royal Artillery
          o 61st Anti-Tank Regiment, Royal Artillery
          o 40th Light Antiaircraft Regiment, Royal Artillery
          o 1st/7th Battalion, The Middlesex Regiment (Duke of Cambridge's Own)

    * British 23rd Armoured Brigade
      Components attached to other units. Never fought as a Brigade in Sicily
          o 50th Royal Tank Regiment
          o (Part) 46th Royal Tank Regiment

    * British 231st Infantry Brigade
          o 2nd Battalion, The Devonshire Regiment
          o 1st Battalion, The Dorset Regiment
          o 1st Battalion, The Hampshire Regiment
          o 165th Field Regiment, Royal Artillery

[MiloMorai]

It is more than just German production Boroda. It is also the million+ that were involved in defense and repair of the Reich. That includes fighter units that could have been used on the EF. I believe it was Speer who said the Allied air offensive cost Germany 30% of its production.

[Boroda]

If you'll list platoons instead of batallions - your list will be even longer.

BTW, since when Sicily is "continental Europe"?

Sooo funny and predictable you are very touching

[Boroda]

Originally posted by MiloMorai
It is more than just German production Boroda. It is also the million+ that were involved in defense and repair of the Reich. That includes fighter units that could have been used on the EF. I believe it was Speer who said the Allied air offensive cost Germany 30% of its production.

Then how it comes that they increased industrial production until Red Army came?...

Thank you for spelling my callsign correctly. I have always said that almost everyone can learn, remember Pavlov's dogs?

[MiloMorai]

I don't know the names of any of Pavlov's dogs or I would use one of them.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by MiloMorai
I don't know the names of any of Pavlov's dogs or I would use one of them.

You can see some names here in this thread and you use one already Just look at my signature to understand

[MiloMorai]

It is easy to have big numbers since a commie battalion was half the size of an Allied battalion.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by MiloMorai
It is easy to have big numbers since a commie battalion was half the size of an Allied battalion.

And a commie soldier was half the size of an "allied" warrior?

Allied batalion = 600-800 men? I didn't know that. I remember such difference in numbers during the Crimean (Eastern) war of 1852-55, when British division was as small as a Russian regiment. And German tank batallion in WWII was as big as a Soviet tank brigade.

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Laurie
This is one of the few times i agree with one of your posts

<> Laurie

[Elfie]

Originally posted by Boroda

Originally posted by Elfie
Not quite the fight you seem to think it was: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_August_Storm

"August Storm"!?

Next please.

Slogans like "Decisive Failure" or "Wineglass Storm" are a modern American invention.

In this case I'd better trust Soviet sources then wikipedian hallucinations.

I used Wikipedia because it was convenient. Milo posted another source that backs up the Wiki source. Generally speaking, you can find sources that back up Wikipedia especially in regards to WWII history.

If you don't like Wikipedia as a source, then find one you do like and post it.

[AKIron]

Originally posted by Elfie
I used Wikipedia because it was convenient. Milo posted another source that backs up the Wiki source. Generally speaking, you can find sources that back up Wikipedia especially in regards to WWII history.

If you don't like Wikipedia as a source, then find one you do like and post it.

I think wikipedia is a good a source as any most of the time as long as you aren't trusting your life or money to it. It isn't very hard to find cooberating evidence if needed.

[Elfie]

Originally posted by AKIron
I think wikipedia is a good a source as any most of the time as long as you aren't trusting your life or money to it. It isn't very hard to find cooberating evidence if needed.

That could be said about many sources.