Author Topic: The pledge. (Read 1228 times)

SkyRock · « **Reply #15 on:** July 04, 2007, 04:59:41 PM »

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Originally posted by WOOD1
of a country that allows us

I find it funny you look at it this way. Everyone should have a sense of national pride no matter where you were born, but no person should ever be forced to pledge to anything! The way we pledge is by upholding the laws of the land, and of course, paying taxes! My country does not "allow" me to do anything, I do what I want and when I want to, as long as I am within the law!

Mark

btw happy birthday, America!

TheBug · « **Reply #16 on:** July 04, 2007, 05:02:15 PM »

We haven't been free for a long time now.

I'm thinking a new declaration of independence is in order.

WOOD1 · « **Reply #17 on:** July 04, 2007, 05:09:29 PM »

I am not blindly waving a flag. To honor the pledge is to honor an ideal, a thought, that all of us are created equally, that all of us has a say, that our thoughts and opinions are just as important as the next guy's. It's not a pledge for blind obedience, it's saying that you recognize the importance of other people's beliefs and opinions. It's a statement that you will challenge injustice to your fellow man, that you will try to right a wrong. You have got me all wrong, we were born out of a revolution, an idea that we could govern ourselves and be governed by ourselves. That's our constitution, that's what we're all about. The pledge of Allegiance is all about being loyal to that concept, that you recognize and respect your fellow human beings. It's about freedom, recognizing yours and those around you.

AKwoodee

wooley · « **Reply #18 on:** July 04, 2007, 05:29:08 PM »

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Originally posted by Ghosth
If you have a problem with the Pledge of allegiance I have a problem with you in my country.

Dude,

I'm in your country. Legally. I pay taxes (for little in return), have health insurance, donate blood every now and then and donate to a couple of US based charities. My work directly impacts US homeland security and enables approximately 20 US citizens to have high paid jobs.

I am understand my presence here is as a guest and I think the USA is a truely great nation, but you'll be waiting a long, long time before you hear me utter the pledge of allegiance.

Bucky73 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 04, 2007, 05:29:46 PM »

The Constitution gives every American the right to be a moron and unfortunately too many exercise that right far too often. As proven in a few of these posts.

blkmgc · « **Reply #20 on:** July 04, 2007, 07:43:45 PM »

I'm just glad i live in a country where I can choose to say "under god" in the pledge if I so choose.

If it pisses of anyone, that just a bonus.

SkyRock · « **Reply #21 on:** July 04, 2007, 10:13:52 PM »

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Originally posted by blkmgc

If it pisses of anyone, that just a bonus.

to he11, with good will I guess?

Mark

stickpig · « **Reply #22 on:** July 05, 2007, 01:07:09 AM »

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Originally posted by Westy
Wood1 you're wrong. Patriotism is what you DO not what you say or wave that is loyalty. Oaths, allegiances and flag worship is what is called "shallow patriotism." Especially when they are what is held up high as proof of what being a good, proper citizen is as you an Ghosth are doing

Look it up. "shallow patriotism"

Both are parts of patriotism.....Your actions as well as your words.

Alot of people shed blood to defend the flag..... I dont think they would consider themselves as "Shallow patriots"

blkmgc · « **Reply #23 on:** July 05, 2007, 06:24:47 AM »

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Originally posted by SkyRock
to he11, with good will I guess?

Mark

Not changing my beliefs for the sake of "good will" bud. If someone lives here and believes different, they should be just as happy and thankfull as me that they have the right to do so.

LLv34_Dictonius · « **Reply #24 on:** July 05, 2007, 07:24:36 AM »

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we have the problem of too many people wanting to be Americans

Yes we all want to have our share of your perfect health care system and fight the wars overseas

Simaril · « **Reply #25 on:** July 05, 2007, 08:02:24 AM »

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Originally posted by LLv34_Dictonius
Yes we all want to have our share of your perfect health care system and fight the wars overseas

Lets be honest....IN SPITE of those problems, people literally risk death to get into the US. For all its many problems, the US offers a wealth of educational, political, religious, and economic possibilities. And to be blunt, the America bashers need to remember that without the US, the world economy would crash and burn in a way that would make the Great Depression a Sunday picnic. (That's the optimist's view of being the world's biggest consumer of energy and consumer goods!)

I was born here, and I'm grateful for it. I'm not a "my country right or wrong" guy, and I'd argue with those who act like God is a US citizen. But I can't think of a country founded on better principles, with a better IDEA of what a nation should be like.

That's the real american dream -- that's what I'm proud of, and that's what I'd fight for.

Ghosth · « **Reply #26 on:** July 05, 2007, 08:18:24 AM »

Wooley, your a guest here, then as long as your visa is current I don't have a problem. Nor if I came legally to your country would I expect to be held to the same standard as residents of that country.

But if your a citizen here, and you have a problem with the pledge that would be a different matter don't you think?

I don't expect guests in my house to do the dishes or take out the garbage. But if my daughter is living here I expect her to step up. I don't hold the 2 to the same standard or expect the same from them.

Westy, there is a big difference between shallow flag waving patriotism that will disappear when the going gets tough. And a deep down belief in what it is that the pledge stands for. Allegiance to the flag, belief in one nation, not to be divided or split, with liberty and justice for all. Those are not things I take lightly. Nor should any US Citizen.

And I'll say it again, if you really have a problem with those simple concepts and what they stand for. And if your a citizen of this country, then yes I have a problem with you. Its not shallow, its deep, so deep I think it went right under you.

Its not about who's in power, or who's fighting who, its about being an AMERICAN FIRST, and everything else second. If you want to live in this country, and reap its benefits, then you should be willing to pledge your allegiance to it.

SkyRock · « **Reply #27 on:** July 05, 2007, 10:52:04 AM »

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Originally posted by Simaril
I was born here, and I'm grateful for it. I'm not a "my country right or wrong" guy, and I'd argue with those who act like God is a US citizen. But I can't think of a country founded on better principles, with a better IDEA of what a nation should be like.

That's the real american dream -- that's what I'm proud of, and that's what I'd fight for.

Wow, very well put!!! I'm impressed!

~~Mark~~

SkyRock · « **Reply #28 on:** July 05, 2007, 11:09:47 AM »

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Originally posted by blkmgc
Not changing my beliefs for the sake of "good will" bud.

So your belief is to use your right to say "under God" to piss people off? Sounds like a griefer!:aok

8903 · « **Reply #29 on:** July 05, 2007, 11:51:02 AM »

Sometimes I read these posts and say WTF are these people thinking, Other times I read and say yeah i can relate.

IMO the ones who truly know about being a Patriot, are the men and woman who served in the armed forces seen their friends get killed infront of them and fought for what they believe was right. Being in the armed forces gives you a whole new respect for the country, flag, and the values that all Americans take for granted. I being one of those people who has been to war has seen my friends die have this respect.

A year or so back i seen a flag laying on the groung in the dirt as 3 young men were trying to put it up, I was glad to see someone was putting a flag up, but it angered me that it was in the dirt on the ground. I told them to have some respect and lift it off the ground, too many men and woman died for that flag. They did not understand what I was talking about. I had to pick the flag up off the ground after 10 min watching them just laugh at what i said, a Viet Nam vet spoke up and really let them have it.

Do I flag worship? NO. I just understand what it means to be an american what oaths I have taken when I joined up and What it means to me. You have your right to speak anything you want, just think before you say anything about this great country you live in, and the people who have fought and died to give you the freedoms you have.