Author Topic: Texas State Lawmaker Opposing Deadly Force Bill Shoots Would-Be Thief  (Read 3250 times)

Offline VOR

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2313
Texas State Lawmaker Opposing Deadly Force Bill Shoots Would-Be Thief
« Reply #45 on: July 11, 2007, 05:29:23 AM »
I never did find the kid who stole my bike back in 82. I'm gonna reopen that cold case, find that kid, and kill him. It's my right!

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
Texas State Lawmaker Opposing Deadly Force Bill Shoots Would-Be Thief
« Reply #46 on: July 11, 2007, 08:59:42 AM »
concho... I am saying that anyone who breaks into my home and makes any move that could be construed as threatening is fair game to shoot.. I would be foolish to not.

I think that you have more constraints and that you should have.  you are rarely defending your own property as a policeman and... you are uniformed and armed and confront people all the time.  you are the person initiating contact in most cases.

These are subtle but real differences.

lazs

Offline Maverick

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13884
Texas State Lawmaker Opposing Deadly Force Bill Shoots Would-Be Thief
« Reply #47 on: July 11, 2007, 10:18:12 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SteveBailey

You are either a troll or very foolish and I'm pretty darned conservative.


I think you have it pretty well nailed here Steve.
DEFINITION OF A VETERAN
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life."
Author Unknown

Offline Jackal1

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9092
Texas State Lawmaker Opposing Deadly Force Bill Shoots Would-Be Thief
« Reply #48 on: July 11, 2007, 10:31:36 AM »
Stealing someone`s car...they might get away without being shot if they held real still.
Stealing cash.......they might get away without being shot if they held real still.
Stealing jewelry, TVs, stereos, etc. ..........they might get away without being shot if they held real still.

But stealing a man`s fishing rod????? Horrendous, devious and most of all dangerous.
Get the rope boys. I`ll meet ya down by the big old oak tree. ;)
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
------------------------------------------------------------------

Offline BBBB

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 696
Texas State Lawmaker Opposing Deadly Force Bill Shoots Would-Be Thief
« Reply #49 on: July 11, 2007, 11:14:40 AM »
I love living in Kennesaw, Ga. It is required by city ordnance to own a firearm. If you get broke into and you don't have a gun you can be fined. This may seem silly but crime in Kennesaw is very low. This is one of the few places in metro Atlanta where women, elders, young teens can run, walk and have fun at night with no fear of being robbed or assaulted.

 Anti-gun types can say what they like. Kennesaw is proof that a pro-gun system works. Yes we still have crime in Kennesaw, but it violent crime doesn't happen to often.

 The self defensive law was passes a few years ago here in Ga. In that time it has been used a few different times. It has saved lives and prevented more lives lost or ruined. Cops are not always around.

Offline -Concho-

  • Parolee
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 784
Texas State Lawmaker Opposing Deadly Force Bill Shoots Would-Be Thief
« Reply #50 on: July 11, 2007, 10:22:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
concho... I am saying that anyone who breaks into my home and makes any move that could be construed as threatening is fair game to shoot.. I would be foolish to not.

I think that you have more constraints and that you should have.  you are rarely defending your own property as a policeman and... you are uniformed and armed and confront people all the time.  you are the person initiating contact in most cases.

These are subtle but real differences.

lazs


Sorry for the late reply, it's been a long day.

I just wanted to say those are very good points, we do initate most contacts that result in deadly situations.  Proactive policing is a good policy to have in my opinion.

In the same manner that we have meat-headed cops with lack of training, expirence, or both infulence case law with their bad decisions this law will be influenced by people that lack good judgement.  We've seen a few in this thread.  

As long as a man uses good common sense their should be no need for such a statute.

Offline x0847Marine

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1412
Texas State Lawmaker Opposing Deadly Force Bill Shoots Would-Be Thief
« Reply #51 on: July 12, 2007, 07:27:57 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
How many of you really think deadly force is justified over the theft of a fishing rod?

How many of you KNOW that your state would not prosecute you?


Thus far I'd say 2 people have a clue about deadly force, the others will end up serving time for manslaughter or murder on top of being sued by the suspects family if they ever followed through with what they think they know.

Laws vary, but  1 word had better define the use of deadly force; "reasonable"... and even that varies a-lot, some DAs like to redefine it.

I had a call of a Joe Plumber dude who is awakened a 2am by noises in his unattached garage, his house alarm status was secure. He disables the alarm and goes out back to have a look seeing two suspects, 1 look out, 1 inside with a flashlight. Joe runs inside the house, grabs his .45 and runs back outside, the end result was he shot & wounded both of them after one of the little thugs simulated a weapon.

I had no problem with it, NHI IMO, and wrote it as self defense, but weeks later the DA calls me.. it's his opinion that Joes actions were not entirely reasonable and he's considering charges.

The DA opined that after going outside seeing the suspects and going inside to arm himself, Joe should have  stayed inside the safety of his alarmed house, armed himself to defend his family and called the police... going back outside to confront 2 suspects was "unreasonable" since, as the DA decided, nobodies safety was in immediate danger.

Common sense prevailed, after the DA 'investigated' for a year, and no charges were filed.

Total BS like this is exactly what one can expect, some DAs are frik'n morons like that. Imagine a similar scenario some place in Texas with a "hang em high" DA, Joe plumber would get a well deserved medal for teaching two thug criminals a lesson.

Offline McFarland

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 606
Texas State Lawmaker Opposing Deadly Force Bill Shoots Would-Be Thief
« Reply #52 on: July 12, 2007, 07:39:49 AM »
Well, that is what is wrong with this world. Self defence is gone. Idiot lawmakers and lawyers think that the criminals have the same rights as the honest man. Which they don't. Someone tries stealing form me, I'll fill him with buckshot. The most basic right we have is to protect ourselves from dishonest men. In that situation above, by the time the police got there, the suspects would have been long gone, and the police would have said, "Nothing we can do here, they're gone." The man did what was right. If more people did that, you would see a sharp decline in crime levels.

Offline -Concho-

  • Parolee
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 784
Texas State Lawmaker Opposing Deadly Force Bill Shoots Would-Be Thief
« Reply #53 on: July 12, 2007, 08:08:34 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by McFarland
Self defence is gone.


Don't confuse self defense with defense of property.

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
Texas State Lawmaker Opposing Deadly Force Bill Shoots Would-Be Thief
« Reply #54 on: July 12, 2007, 08:55:49 AM »
concho... I am not saying that cops do a poor job or that they shouldn't use deadly force...  I believe the opposite in fact.

I am just saying that you can't compare police force to civilian force.  I not only think that cops can be trusted with deadly force... I also think that more than 99% of my fellow citizens can.

lazs

Offline McFarland

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 606
Texas State Lawmaker Opposing Deadly Force Bill Shoots Would-Be Thief
« Reply #55 on: July 12, 2007, 09:20:14 AM »
Self defence and defence of property are one and the same. Your property is yours, not his. You worked hard for what you have, and some freeloader does not have the rights to it.

Offline Maverick

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13884
Texas State Lawmaker Opposing Deadly Force Bill Shoots Would-Be Thief
« Reply #56 on: July 12, 2007, 10:09:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by McFarland
Self defence and defence of property are one and the same. Your property is yours, not his. You worked hard for what you have, and some freeloader does not have the rights to it.


So how much property value is a life worth? If someone is stealing your kids skateboard from your lawn are you going to shoot them?
DEFINITION OF A VETERAN
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life."
Author Unknown

Offline -Concho-

  • Parolee
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 784
Texas State Lawmaker Opposing Deadly Force Bill Shoots Would-Be Thief
« Reply #57 on: July 12, 2007, 10:19:46 AM »
Laz I follow you, it's just the 1% (like macfarland) that are going to infulence the out come.

I think every man has the right to defend himself to the highest degree when threatened, but listening to guys like macfarland beat his chest about how he would kill a person over class b theft of property scares the hell out of me.  

My very own brother did 6 weeks in county over a theft charge.  He paid his restitution and now he is a father, business owner, and good citizen.  People can change their lives with the proper influence.

Offline McFarland

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 606
Texas State Lawmaker Opposing Deadly Force Bill Shoots Would-Be Thief
« Reply #58 on: July 12, 2007, 10:20:53 AM »
If they try to run, yes.

Offline -Concho-

  • Parolee
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 784
Texas State Lawmaker Opposing Deadly Force Bill Shoots Would-Be Thief
« Reply #59 on: July 12, 2007, 10:22:13 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Maverick
So how much property value is a life worth? If someone is stealing your kids skateboard from your lawn are you going to shoot them?


Mav he is either very young, a troll, or possibly a leprechaun hell bent on saving his lucky charms.