Gotta admire ol' dubya

[Eagler]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
And they would still be trying to kill us anyway.
So nothing has changed.

Would you rather have them going after our soldiers there?
Or our civil population here?

I always thought one of the US doctrines was to fight our wars overseas. So they wouldnt have to be fought here

They soon forgot.
If it goes like I think in 08 given the current state of this nations left leaning, media fed backbone, we will be reminded .... in spades soon enough ... of course it will be Bushs fault then too - regardless of when/where the next one goes off

[Hawco]

Hey hang on a miniute here. It's not Just the US that's in Iraq, we have Soldiers from various nations too, We can all talk about dubyas this and that, But it's  not Just about the US.
My whole point was that you can say what you like about the guy, But he's got nuts and he talks straight, what's wrong with that?

[uberhun]

Originally posted by Hawco
Hey hang on a miniute here. It's not Just the US that's in Iraq, we have Soldiers from various nations too, We can all talk about dubyas this and that, But it's  not Just about the US.
My whole point was that you can say what you like about the guy, But he's got nuts and he talks straight, what's wrong with that?

AS THE SHEEP SLOWLY ROLL INTO THEIR PENS FOR THE SLAUGHTER



SAY HELLO TO FACISM

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Hawco
Hey hang on a miniute here. It's not Just the US that's in Iraq, we have Soldiers from various nations too, We can all talk about dubyas this and that, But it's  not Just about the US.
My whole point was that you can say what you like about the guy, But he's got nuts and he talks straight, what's wrong with that?

As of May 2007, approximately 93% of the troops are U.S. so it pretty much is about the U.S.

[john9001]

Originally posted by Sandman
As of May 2007, approximately 93% of the troops are U.S. so it pretty much is about the U.S.

<<
Iraqi Forces Continue to Grow in Number.
In September 2004, there were only 96,000 trained and equipped Iraqi Security Forces. By November 2005, there were more than 212,000. As of May 30th, there were nearly 350,000 trained and equipped Iraqi Security Forces.>>

[Sandman]

Originally posted by john9001
<<
Iraqi Forces Continue to Grow in Number.
In September 2004, there were only 96,000 trained and equipped Iraqi Security Forces. By November 2005, there were more than 212,000. As of May 30th, there were nearly 350,000 trained and equipped Iraqi Security Forces.>>

Iraq PM: Country can manage without U.S.

[RedTop]

Shuckins,

Although I agree with 90 percent of what your saying I have to think your arguing with people you shouldn't be.

Your one point , probably sarcastic n nature , is what I would like to see.

 

Yes, let's bring them home and be done with it. And hope to heaven our enemies won't follow them home.

Our enemies are here....and getting green cards. The enemey will get here regardless. And the left will find a way to  make it will be Bush's fault.

I support the war....Mistakes are made and have been made....But not just by Bush....its been made by ALL the politicans. The "I voted for the war but didn't vote for this war" crowd.

This country has taken a turn downwards. Americans can't stomache reality IMO and although every U.S. death in Iraq is tragic....it's been IMO a very small percentage of what COULD happen in the future to civilians HERE.

We'll see....But right now....If congress gets his way and the troops come home....I predict a shift in terrorist activity that will shake the world and this country to the brink of Civil war here.

[storch]

I don't think that civil war within the US will occur over the islamic invasion through immigration.  

I have several moslem neighbors, they will not condemn any terrorist activity directly.  the way they communicate is very subtle unlike us (or many of us) who just say what needs to be said and often speak our minds.  my neighbors express remorse but not outright condemnation of terrorist acts.  at first this bothered me but observing the way they deal with other matters involving correcting their children or expressing a difference of opinion I have come to conclude that simply disagreeing with something and expressing it in even the most tactful terms is a big deal to these folks.

these folks are very non offensive in their dealings with others and very family oriented.  their kids are as American as any other in the community and they themselves are going through the transition that any first generation immigrant goes through, it is difficult becoming an American especially if you are coming from such a backwards society as the moslem society is.

not every arab that is here is our enemy and many are fleeing that bass ackwards way of live of the betterment of their progeny.

my neighbors now drink beer and eat just about anything including pork.  as I have often said on these boards and elsewhere American culture transforms everyone that comes in contact with it and it's hard not to love the American way of life.

if any of my neighbors immigrated here with some nefarious scheme I would say that they have long forgotten what the plan was and are now content to drink a nice cold one as we grill by the lake and tell lies.  I absolutely hate islamicists but I love my neighbors and their families, even if their wives wear rags on their heads when they are around company.

[Saxman]

It's the odd thing about America. Nowhere else in the world do so many different cultures and religions live (excluding a small number of bad eggs) in peace. Except in a few rare cases we just don't have the sort of home-grown terrorism you see even in many other parts of the West.

Christians, Jews and Muslims, who are at each other's throats elsewhere in the world, here attend the same schools, live in the same neighborhoods and (again, in the majority of cases) call each other friends. People make a big deal about racisim in the United States, but there are still MANY countries were different ethnic groups are excluded from even the OPPORTUNITY of bettering their position in society, if not being made the targets of government-sponsored violence.

Maybe that's the big threat America represents. We're the living PROOF that all these different conflicting cultures CAN live and work together.

For regimes built on fear and that thrive on the spread of hatred, there's nothing more dangerous.

[RedTop]

Originally posted by storch
I don't think that civil war within the US will occur over the islamic invasion through immigration.  

I have several moslem neighbors, they will not condemn any terrorist activity directly.  the way they communicate is very subtle unlike us (or many of us) who just say what needs to be said and often speak our minds.  my neighbors express remorse but not outright condemnation of terrorist acts.  at first this bothered me but observing the way they deal with other matters involving correcting their children or expressing a difference of opinion I have come to conclude that simply disagreeing with something and expressing it in even the most tactful terms is a big deal to these folks.

these folks are very non offensive in their dealings with others and very family oriented.  their kids are as American as any other in the community and they themselves are going through the transition that any first generation immigrant goes through, it is difficult becoming an American especially if you are coming from such a backwards society as the moslem society is.

not every arab that is here is our enemy and many are fleeing that bass ackwards way of live of the betterment of their progeny.

my neighbors now drink beer and eat just about anything including pork.  as I have often said on these boards and elsewhere American culture transforms everyone that comes in contact with it and it's hard not to love the American way of life.

if any of my neighbors immigrated here with some nefarious scheme I would say that they have long forgotten what the plan was and are now content to drink a nice cold one as we grill by the lake and tell lies.  I absolutely hate islamicists but I love my neighbors and their families, even if their wives wear rags on their heads when they are around company.

There are millions of muslims in this country.....Many more still coming.....It doesn't take many as the past has shown to cause a BIG problem.

Out of these millions I feel VERY confident that a few are ticked.

I agree that not all muslims are terrorist , but almost all the terrorists are muslims.

America is hard to resist. The way of life we have here is very appealing. Especially when compared to living in a poor country with very little if any future of it getting better.

Your obervation of how the don't outright condem is interesting. Especially since here in amerrica , americans will condem other americans at the drop of a hat. They cut of the heads of people and celebrate. Some Soliders commit crimes against prisoners and you'd would have thought THEY beheaded someone.

The 9/11 terrorist adapted to american culture and plotted and succeded in thier plans. I wouldn't think for a second that the same thing couldn't happen again. NOT that your neighbors are terrorists. Not saying that. Just saying that just because people look normal....doesn't make it so.

[Gunthr]

Bush is disappointing on several levels.  I still think he is a good man.  I think he has identified a huge problem that America faces.


How this all will shake out.....    time will tell.

[FrodeMk3]

Bush is disappointing on several levels. I still think he is a good man. I think he has identified a huge problem that America faces.

Maybe if he sees his own reflection in the mirror.

[Hap]

Originally posted by Shuckins
And yet, almost every criticism leveled at the Bush administration has to do with or stems from the war....and the war alone.

I'm against/dissapointed:

1) Bush's (read Administration's) reaction when China horked our spy plane during his 1st year.
2) The $300 tax give away.
3) Hosing the American blue collar worker by carrying on with past decision to lose our manufacturing base in the US.
4) Immigration
5) Trade imbalance -- goes with #3.

There's 4.

Also, to say except for the war, he's done okay is not entirely unlike saying apart from Watergate, Nixon did pretty well.

Or, except for their response to the Great Depression, the Hoover admin was ok.


Or, except for the Great Society, Johnson did a good job (substitute Viet Nam if you like).

And I agree with Gunther too.  But Bush didn't identify the Muhammaden threat per se.  But close enough for jazz.

[Saxman]

Not just manufacturing, Hap. Dubya overturned regulations instituted under Clinton that put limits foreign outsourcing PERIOD.

IT fields were hit especially hard by this (and I speak from direct personal experience on this).

[Shuckins]

Hap, what ARE you talking about?  Several of the items on your list are problems that existed long before Bush took office.



1.  What did you want Bush to do when the Chinese government captured our surveillance aircraft?  Go to war?  Exactly what actions would you have taken as president that would have been more effective that those that Bush took?  Invasion ... sanctions....what?

2.  The tax give away was substantially more for some than others.  What a surprise THAT is, considering the fact that some people earn more than others and pay more in to begin with.  The whole purpose of the tax cut was to stimulate the economy.  Since the GDP is more than 35% greater than it was than when Bush took office the argument can be made that his tax cut and other economic policies have been a success.  Or are we just not going to give him credit for anything positive that is happening?

3.  I suppose you're talking about NAFTA here.  The work on this began during the elder Bush's administration and was largely completed before Clinton was elected.  It was voted into law by both the House and the Senate.  Nearly as many Democratic House members voted for it as did Republicans.  Clinton sanctioned it late in 1993.  So how is this Bush's fault?  How could he have dissolved it without causing massive ill-will with the governments of Mexico and Canada?

4.  Immigration.  Illegal aliens have been pouring across the Mexican border for three decades.  No president has been able to get a handle on this problem because there is no consensus of opinion in Congress or between the two political parties.  Bush supported a bipartisan bill that dealt with the immigration problem that would have at least made a start toward handling the problem.  It wasn't perfect, but it showed promise.  It's failure should not be laid solely at his feet, but at the feet of those from both parties who worked to kill it.

5.  The trade imbalance existed before Reagan took office.  The only way to reverse it would be to enact draconian trade restrictions against foreign products.  Should the Bush administration and Congress really open that can of worms?  A massive trade war is the last thing the economy needs.

As to the outsourcing of jobs let me simply ask this question:  Do you really think it would benefit American companies whose home made products can no longer compete in the international market for the government to force them to continue to hire expensive American labor?  I realize the thought of hiring foreigners instead of fellow Americans is a repugnant idea, but to survive in the global marketplace, at least in some areas of manufacturing, what choice do they have?