Author Topic: Did anything happen to the 50 cal? (Read 8127 times)

Fishu · « **Reply #30 on:** October 17, 2000, 11:00:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by bloom25:
LOL, where did this 1 50 caliber come from. What fighter can fire 1 50 cal? If that was the case, yes, 2 seconds would be about right. Divide that by 6 and you get 1/3 second. Can you get kills with 1/3 second of 50 cal fire? I don't think I've managed that.

Perhaps a film of you downing a fighter would be a good thing to prove your arguement.

That 2 seconds expects that YOU WILL HIT
With 6*.50cal, you can't be sure you hit *every* bullet.
If you realise that 2 seconds of burst with one .50 caliber is about 20-23 shots / hits.
and I doubt you have 100% gunnery.. so your 6x.50cal or 1x.50cal doesn't do it in that 2 seconds or under 1/3 second...

[This message has been edited by Fishu (edited 10-17-2000).]

Fishu · « **Reply #31 on:** October 17, 2000, 11:04:00 PM »

Dear hangtime..
There is things like dispersion on the bullets and movement of your head when you maneuver.. (and sight moves there too)
and this dispersion is quite bad for guns...
I don't know how anyone could hit one spot of a plane from beyond 200 yards, when even M3 halftrack can't hit within 5 feets area from 70 yards...
I had good test on this when I was covering field for troops in an halftrack and strafed B-26 so that I tried to kill its pilot

70 yards and shots were from left engine to the right engine when I aimed the cockpit..
(gun jumps up/down, but more shots seemed more to jump left/right than up/down)

Hangtime · « **Reply #32 on:** October 17, 2000, 11:18:00 PM »

Dear Fishu.

I'm 173 freakin yards off his nose and fillin the air with lead right in front of him. Watch tracer angles. look at the lead; both inside the plane; outside the plane. The range continued to close. How can that shot miss? He's driving virtually untouched thru a cloud of lead. Look at the g meter. Run the film.

Somethin's wrong with these guns!

Hang

Fishu · « **Reply #33 on:** October 17, 2000, 11:20:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hangtime:
Dear Fishu.

I'm 173 freakin yards off his nose and fillin the air with lead right in front of him. Watch tracer angles. look at the lead; both inside the plane; outside the plane. The range continued to close. How can that shot miss? He's driving virtually untouched thru a cloud of lead. Look at the g meter. Run the film.

Somethin's wrong with these guns!

Hang

That isn't just problem of .50 calibers..
also, I really don't see everything from those screenshots..
I see first screenshot just from one angle and another from cockpit, but to me it looks like undershot

StSanta · « **Reply #34 on:** October 18, 2000, 06:03:00 AM »

CavemanJ:

Fromw which angle did you attack vehicle hangar?

Attack from thbe long side (meaning target "stretches out" in front of you) and yo'll find that for some reason, LOTS of them will go through the roof and harmlessly hit the ground below it.

Attack from "long" side.

Attack from an angle or from short side, and more will hit.

Better, but not perfect

I've used all 30's and most 20's on a vh, attacking from the wrong angle once. That's how I found out. The best way is to attack it at a 45 degree angle at at least a 20 degree dive

Almost all rounds will hit.

It's a bug that has existed for some time. Not an big deal if ya know about it but if you don't it can be a major bugger.

Posting pics just in case my English cannot convey what I am trying to say (oooh rhyme!)

------------------
StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"

-ammo- · « **Reply #35 on:** October 18, 2000, 06:53:00 AM »

Hangtime, Bloom, all concerned.....

Guys i do know what you mean be the gunnery seeming as if it underwent a change. after the last version I needed a little adjustment to get back with the program. However, I cannot detect a change in the lethality of the M2 50 cal. To me they are everything I want or need them to be. I achieve great results in tracking, deflection and even SNAPSHOTS. If I do my part and ge the the rounds on target, they shred the target. Just last night in the med league fun frame I had a 90 degree off deflection shot on a 109 from the P-47 i was flying, the 109 was destroyed. The driver was CAMO, maebe he will come forward and witness to this as I didnt have film of it. However I do have a film that will back up what I am saying.

I will be glad to email the film in zipped form to anyone who wants it.

ammo

bloom25 · « **Reply #36 on:** October 18, 2000, 02:37:00 PM »

OK, OK, Fishu, I give up. You obviously possess a knowlege of AH far beyond that of any mortal being. I don't see that you have played this tour under 4 of the names that I know you used to use. Have you played AH online since patch 5 came out? If so, please show us a film from a previous tour and one from this tour so we can compare bullet trajectories and damage.

Hangtime, I see what you are talking about. My films show the same thing. Maybe this IS the reason for what I'm describing. The guns no longer seem to converge at the set point, thus causing less damage with no apparent reduction in the number of strikes when I do get hits. Pulling any g's at all only compounds the problem, the bullets just scatter all over the place. This also may be the reason why snapshots have less effect now.

------------------
bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS

-aper- · « **Reply #37 on:** October 18, 2000, 02:49:00 PM »

chk film

ftp://ftp.diploma.ru/incoming/film108_gunnery.ahf

and you'll see how 'weak' they are

Fishu · « **Reply #38 on:** October 18, 2000, 11:30:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by bloom25:
OK, OK, Fishu, I give up. You obviously possess a knowlege of AH far beyond that of any mortal being. I don't see that you have played this tour under 4 of the names that I know you used to use. Have you played AH online since patch 5 came out? If so, please show us a film from a previous tour and one from this tour so we can compare bullet trajectories and damage.

Yuups.. not a single problem to hit.. well, maybe with 30mm which needs modern day fighters aim tracking system.
and .50 caliber is actually pretty punchy too, does not have same power from behind as it has from above, but it sure kills with realistic feeling. (as it wasn't any miracle machinegun)
and hispanos still rocking the tanks like no tomorrow while other sort of guns just tickles them as the best result.
I've been just quiet lately

bloom25 · « **Reply #39 on:** October 18, 2000, 11:58:00 PM »

Maybe the damage is ok, but there is certainly something wrong with the dispersion. I don't have any trouble hitting with the 50s either, in fact I think there is nothing easier to score hits with. My problem is that it takes mass quanities of ammo to do damage compared to previous versions. My guess is that it may have something to do with this dispersion issue...

Edit: Hey, look at this, judging by your second post it looks you are saying the same thing, "(bullet dispersion is punishing .50 caliber very hard in AH.. as well as 7mm calibers)." Totally agree with you.

------------------
bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS

[This message has been edited by bloom25 (edited 10-19-2000).]

CavemanJ · « **Reply #40 on:** October 19, 2000, 12:15:00 AM »

Santa I'm aware of that problem, but from my expierence it's only been A bases that have that problem.
Anywho, most of those 6 passes were made at about a 45degree angle, walking the round down the side of the hanger.

ammo, was wind on in the SEA Med for the med league? I was in there for a bit, but dinnae remember encountering any wind layers while climbing in my spit. Mayhap the wind is screwing with the gunnery again, but only really noticable on the .50s since the cannon still have thier explosive damage.

Fishu · « **Reply #41 on:** October 19, 2000, 01:45:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by bloom25:

Edit: Hey, look at this, judging by your second post it looks you are saying the same thing, "(bullet dispersion is punishing .50 caliber very hard in AH.. as well as 7mm calibers)." Totally agree with you.

I've been saying that for a long time since 1.04...
I don't know of cannons because I haven't been testing those much for dispersion nor would I care where I hit with those... (ive flown more with those HS & M2 planes lately..)

bloom25 · « **Reply #42 on:** October 19, 2000, 02:02:00 AM »

It's not just the fighters either, I was up a little bit in an m16 and those 50cal are now like a shotgun. They don't converge at all. Try shooting at a hill near you, they go all over the place.

------------------
bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS

[This message has been edited by bloom25 (edited 10-19-2000).]

Fishu · « **Reply #43 on:** October 19, 2000, 02:52:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by bloom25:
It's not just the fighters either, I was up a little bit in an m16 and those 50cal are now like a shotgun. They don't converge at all. Try shooting at a hill near you, they go all over the place.

Try shooting a tank

I've been doing that with few M16s offline, to test lethality of .50 against tanks..
Though, you must also notice with M16 that those guns are quite widely spread on the truck..
but I can say those hits were all over if i went bit further than 100 yards.

Oh.. by the way, I managed to rip tracks off

StSanta · « **Reply #44 on:** October 19, 2000, 05:54:00 AM »

Stop whining, you allied dweebs.

I order you to use the mg's on the 109s for a while.

Then use the dumb laser beams.

Then whine, if you dare.

.

------------------
StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"