Author Topic: New And Can't Decide: P38L or Me109k-4 (Read 1770 times)

DoNKeY · « **on:** July 18, 2007, 01:12:56 PM »

Here's my predicament, I've been flying AH2 for about two weeks now, and I have fallen in love with my new addiction. I have decided that it is now time for me to become serious with the plane of my choice and learn it inside out so that I can be a serious competitor (and I know thats not going to happen over night 8) ). So I have narrowed it down to two planes that I want to learn and fly in. The 38L or k-4. I have flown a the L a little more than the k-4 lately but now its time to choose for good but I need a little help.

PS I think they both look absolutely beautiful.

Ill post just a few of my thoughts on what I like more about one, etc.

For the 38, what I like about it over the k4 is:

tricycle gears (Imho its soooo much easier to land with this configuration, and with views in particular. I can land a f'ed up 38 a million times better than a regular plane w/ just the two gears.

gun package. (l know the tater is a one hit most of the time but i like the 38s
guns better just because it can saw things up close up and I can
also attempt long range shots to try and put damage on the
target.
no torque (can't get much better than that.

For the k4:
Speed (comes in handy if you think about it 8) ).
climb rate (can also help you out.)
wep time (can't get much better)
30mm (basically one hit kill but its a close up weapon which im not to thrilled about tho)

Basically I want your guys opinion on which plane you think is better (assuming equal pilot skills) and other stuff like that. If the 38 had the speed, climb and wep i would easily take it, but it doesn't, and i think those are 2 or 3 things that can really get you out of trouble.

Hope this makes sense, please help me out lol, I am having such a hard time deciding.

trotter · « **Reply #1 on:** July 18, 2007, 01:18:37 PM »

You are pretty well informed for someone who's been playing for only such a short time. By that regard, I have to believe that, in time, certain things that you find difficult now will begin to come easier to you. These are things such as landings, gunnery, ability to manage torque. Coincidentally, they are most of the same things that make you prefer the 38 to the 109. Therefore, if you are really going to take the time to learn either of the two, I would learn the one that has attributes that you can't "learn" (speed, climb rate, wep duration). The 109k4.

Serenity · « **Reply #2 on:** July 18, 2007, 02:52:16 PM »

Bf-109 K-4. But dont STAY with the K-4, learn it and go on the the Bf-109 G-6. THATS where the fun lies. If you can learn the Messerschmitts, you are truly a great pilot.

Krusty · « **Reply #3 on:** July 18, 2007, 03:08:37 PM »

Well, if you can MASTER 109s, you are a truly great pilot. Same goes for any plane. LEARNING to fly it is relatively easy. Mastering it? Not so much.

Here's the thing: 30mm ballistics suck. 109K-4 flight envelope rocks, though. It's got gobs of power, super climb, great WEP, and decent range. I've had my personal best at 8 kills without reloading in one.

On the other hand, several times I've gotten 8-10 kills in a P-38 as well. Even after you run out of 20mm the gun package (situated as it is) is still superbly lethal! It's got range, it's got redundancy (letting you limp home on 1 engine), but it's also got poor views all around.

The landing gear isn't really the problem. It's the torque. Single engine planes (and most twins) roll/pull to one direction because of the spinning prop, and the K-4 has this in spades. So landing a K4 is going to be a LOT more difficult than a P-38, because in the p38 you only have to worry about 2 axes, not 3.

So the 38 is fairly easy to fly, but limited in the moves it can do compared to some planes. Vertical ropes, loops, hammerheads, etc are the most effective when it has some speed, as it is a great looper. Flat turns are mostly bad. It doesn't do prolonged nose-high turns at all. Nose-low spirals work well. Roll isn't great (it's a huge plane, takes a while to haul around). 109K turns well, can spiral climb nose-high (mostly because of the engine) but it has to worry about torque. Very few things can run away from a K-4 in this game. Only the top 10 climbers can outclimb it.

2 very different but very ballanced choices. Personally I'd go for both!

It helps to learn more than 1 plane. You lock yourself in and you'll miss out on things that you can't do in "Brand X" plane.

bj229r · « **Reply #4 on:** July 18, 2007, 04:30:20 PM »

Fly around in K4 and cherry pick with the taters, you will rule:aok

Fianna · « **Reply #5 on:** July 18, 2007, 05:34:01 PM »

You can't really go wrong with either plane... 38's are my favorite but 109's are a close second.

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #6 on:** July 18, 2007, 05:43:12 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty

So the 38 is fairly easy to fly, but limited in the moves it can do compared to some planes. Vertical ropes, loops, hammerheads, etc are the most effective when it has some speed, as it is a great looper. Flat turns are mostly bad. It doesn't do prolonged nose-high turns at all. Nose-low spirals work well. Roll isn't great (it's a huge plane, takes a while to haul around).

The P-38 rolls very well above 300mph IAS, this includes the G and J. The P-38 is also able to do nose high turns rather well, especially with the use of flaps so that notion that it can't is rather misleading.

ack-ack

Krusty · « **Reply #7 on:** July 18, 2007, 05:49:46 PM »

Notice I said "prolonged"?

It can't do them for long, and once it's wallowing and slow it's dead meat, unless it has alt to trade (also hence my nose-down spiral comment).

That's why I said that

Blooz · « **Reply #8 on:** July 18, 2007, 06:00:22 PM »

Looking from another angle, you could fly the 109K4 if you are a lone wolf and fly the lightning if you have a friend or two.

The K4 has everything to keep a loner safe and working with friends negates the few drawbacks the 38 has.

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #9 on:** July 18, 2007, 06:10:19 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
Notice I said "prolonged"?

It can't do them for long, and once it's wallowing and slow it's dead meat, unless it has alt to trade (also hence my nose-down spiral comment).

That's why I said that

Yes, it can do prolonged nose high turns. Just use the flaps, that's how you can counter spiral climbs in the P-38.

ack-ack

Raptor · « **Reply #10 on:** July 18, 2007, 07:11:48 PM »

AKAK, after a while you learn to just ignore Krusty's comments. He speaks as if he knows everything about every plane (and thing), yet he is often wrong.

Raptor · « **Reply #11 on:** July 18, 2007, 07:19:08 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Blooz
Looking from another angle, you could fly the 109K4 if you are a lone wolf and fly the lightning if you have a friend or two.

The K4 has everything to keep a loner safe and working with friends negates the few drawbacks the 38 has.

I fly the P38 as a "lonewolf" quite a lot. Yes I often find myself being ganged but my ability to engage multiple cons has greatly improved.

That beingsaid, K4 has speed to disengage when outnumbered. People often engage the P38 first because they assume it will be an easy kill because of its large profile.

Donkey if you want my honest opinion, don't pick 1 or 2 planes to master at this point. Fly every plane you can, best advice anyone can give is to know each plane's strengths and weaknesses. I am not going to try to run from a typhoon in a P38, whereas I am not going to go verticle with a spit16. I say spend 1 night with each plane type; so tonight fly different spitfire models, tomorrow different P47s, etc. Don't make it your goal to live, make it your goal to test each plane's limits. Turn off the stall limiter and see if you can make your P51 turn with a spitfire.

Oh... also... have fun:aok

tedrbr · « **Reply #12 on:** July 18, 2007, 07:24:11 PM »

DoNKeY.

I applaud your intention to be disciplined enough to try and master a particular ride. I like a little diversity myself, but can't fault someone trying to specialize.

I suggest you spend one whole tour (1 solid month) flying one, then the next whole tour flying the second. By that time, you should know which you prefer as well as having the scores and details of each of those tours to refer to to help you out --- a means to "grade" your efforts.
Both planes present some challenges, and how you fly -- your "style" if you will -- will determine which plane you can get the most out of. Both planes lead to some others to learn... the rest of the 38 line.... but the K4 leads you to the rest of the 109's the G-2, the G-6, the G14, and even the C.205's (try expanding your skills).

Score is not much a factor: both planes have ENY of 20 in relation to scoring.

K4 is better as an interceptor and killing buffs, and a great B&Z plane (although snapshots with 30mm can be a real challenge).
The K4 is harder to hit than the big Lightning.
The K4-s numbers across the board are generally better.

The P38 can take some damage and still get you home on one smoking engine.
P38 has the range for buff escorting, and can carry the ord for JABO runs.
The P38 has better visibility, once head positions are set up, IMHO.
The P-38 gives you more firing time and a longer effective reach.
The P-38 probably is a little more forgiving a plane to learn than the K4.

Finally, if you intend to take part in SEA events like Snapshots, FSO, KoTH, Scenarios, and such.... generally Axis powers need pilots more than the Allied pilots (usually a good turn out for U.S. rides, not always so for Axis). Specializing in the Axis plane will allow you to join the Axis side in SEA and probably do well in whichever Axis 109 rides are made available for the event.

Krusty · « **Reply #13 on:** July 18, 2007, 08:03:25 PM »

You also learn that Raptor makes snide comments.

You cannot spiral climb for very long with flaps. Not if you want to get above an opposing plane. The flaps slow you down too much and you just start wallowing. You tell me what's going to climb better in level flight, a plane with no flaps, or a plane will full flaps?

Hence the part "prolonged"...

You notice how he provides nothing in that post, other than to attack me? An entire post just to insult somebody... Not exactly neighborly.

DoNKeY · « **Reply #14 on:** July 18, 2007, 08:18:22 PM »

Thanks for all of the help and ideas so far everybody, I really appreciate the community helping me out. I guess I'll fly both of them at a months time each and see what happens from there.

Any more ideas/tips?