How am I shooting?

[Raptor]

Originally posted by Raptor
I don't know what my hit percentage is, I am sure it is not good considering I like to shoot past squadies to make them jump:D

WHAT?!? I just checked my score hit from last tour... HOW DID I GET IN THE SUPERB CATEGORY?!? I demand a recount.

[LYNX]

Originally posted by Vulcan
And all you've told me is you don't listen/read - possibly think through what your responding with. If a 190A5 rolls with 100% DT, which fuel drains first? Think about it.

My mistake you did mention you used a drop tank.  Hence you manually configuring fuel.  I can only extend my appols

My SOP is 100% + DT, 2 x 20mm, take off, switch manually to AFT and drain it to 50%.

If you have been following any of this thread you'll understand my position as far as ammo.  Please don't let my oversight about configuring fuel above taint your opinion from what I said about ammo.

I'd say you owe it to yourself to at least have a TRY with a full BB load. I'll wager your experience now will make up for any "perceived" gains from LONG ago. As for knowing the sprits are 20 mill if you fire the 7.9's and get sprits you can then just bang off a bunch of 20's.

regards

[B@tfinkV]

Originally posted by LYNX
As for knowing the sprits are 20 mill if you fire the 7.9's and get sprits you can then just bang off a bunch of 20's.

with all due reespect lynx, some styles of flying you wouldnt stand a chance in hell of hitting first with Mgs then banging out a few 20mm.

that situation is only available when chasing a noob who isnt evading very much or trying to reverse the attack back onto you.

with the very best pilots, who usualy always beat me in the DA, niether of us ever gets more than a snapshot, there is simply no chance of what you describe happening.

you have avoided and twisted every good point i have made...sadly.

im banging my head against a wall with you though, youre so set in your ways you wont even fight a fair one on one in the DA for fun.

[LYNX]

Originally posted by Major Biggles
LYNX, there is a difference. you can definitely feel it. look at the pony for instance. at 100% fuel the aft tank is full and you can really feel it low and slow on the edge of the envelope. it feels to rear heavy.

roll it with 75% and it feels FAR more responsive.

dumping ammo does make a difference. like bat said, it's not huge, but it DOES make a difference. it's certainly not going to win a fight for you, just dumping some ammo, but it DOES make a SMALL difference.

 

You need to realise something.  This was all about the AH myth of purposefully blowing ammo to give you the edge.  There are many myths in AH and this is just another.  I first heard this over 5 years ago when I joined AH.  "umm plane modeling 5 years ago" ?  A very slight perhaps but I never noticed an "edge" having tried it, and I'm more convinced now.

The "issue" here is Batfink is inconsistent throughout.  Says one thing then another.  I'd rather have our newbie's or anyone else for that matter understand it for what it is.  And what it is is a myth.

Go back over the thread and to some extend whats about to follow and you'll see that Batfink says one thing then another.  Read Bats "aah buts" and "what ifs" throughout.  He will not concede it as a myth and by punting "but" and "if" is perpetuating the myth.

Major Biggles.  Do you agree purposefully blowing BB's in what ever plane you use is a Myth ?

Do any of the following pastes, in light of your response to me, make any sense to you?
lynx
Now you either win the fight or you lose. Simple as that. You didn't win because you pissed away your 190A5 BB's, 110's rear gun, D3a rear gun, Spits 303's or 50 cals you won because you gained an advantage in the fight. You lost the fight because you gave an advantage to the enemy. It isn't down to BB load outs Mattie and all your doing is perpetuating a AH myth. To which my standard answer through out this thread has been It don't matter a RATS ARSE .
lynx
To which all will concede less ammo = less weight= slightly better performance. However Battie me ol fruit cake all will concede with an equally profound nod of the head, It don't matter a RATS ARSE .

[HaDeSs]

Originally posted by Toad
Killing ack while not in attack mode hurts your percentage, correct?

I really don't know because this stuff is pretty immaterial to me.

What counts for the whole game is how many planes with red icons blow up in front of my guns.

I have wright it many times that separation of Attack and Fighter modes
is wrong.

I explain.. what more simple and more fair than to add attack points when you attack in gvs, lets say,
and fighter points when you kill poor pilots. Automatically.
 In the same fly.

Why i should loose points (if someone cares) if i kill a ack with 90-100%
accuracy because i have choose fighter mode?

or doesnt count a kill after a dogfight if i was out for attack mode on gvs ?

The manual selection of modes must stop.
Points must go in attack when you kill targets on ground and on fighter when you kill everything who fly.

Same fly, automatically.

So simple. And so fair.

[bj229r]

Originally posted by HaDeSs
I have wright it many times that separation of Attack and Fighter modes
is wrong.

I explain.. what more simple and more fair than to add attack points when you attack in gvs, lets say,
and fighter points when you kill poor pilots. Automatically.
 In the same fly.

Why i should loose points (if someone cares) if i kill a ack with 90-100%
accuracy because i have choose fighter mode?

or doesnt count a kill after a dogfight if i was out for attack mode on gvs ?

The manual selection of modes must stop.
Points must go in attack when you kill targets on ground and on fighter when you kill everything who fly.

Same fly, automatically.

So simple. And so fair.

That would probably cut down on the 'point-whoring' behavior, not a bad idea, I think

[dedalos]

Originally posted by B@tfinkV
with all due reespect lynx, some styles of flying you wouldnt stand a chance in hell of hitting first with Mgs then banging out a few 20mm.

that situation is only available when chasing a noob who isnt evading very much or trying to reverse the attack back onto you.

with the very best pilots, who usualy always beat me in the DA, niether of us ever gets more than a snapshot, there is simply no chance of what you describe happening.

you have avoided and twisted every good point i have made...sadly.

im banging my head against a wall with you though, youre so set in your ways you wont even fight a fair one on one in the DA for fun.

I have to agree with Bat.  That works when you are shooting someone running from a fight.  In a dog fight vs a good pilot, all you will get is a 1 second firing window.  You either hit and win, or in my case, you miss and lose.

However, I do think that dumping ammo will make no difference in the fight unless you are fighting your clone, lol.  I have no idea if the ammo weight is modeled or not, but in either case, the variables coming in to a dog fight are so many, that even if it was modeled it would have made no difference (with the exception of fighting your clone and he is coping your every move)

Thene again, someone from HTC could have cleared this a long time ago in this thread (unless they did and I missed it).  you know they have read the thread, so, what is the answer??

[Lusche]

Originally posted by dedalos
I have no idea if the ammo weight is modeled or not, :

It is. You can check this in E6B, where you can see your current plane weight.

Howerver, the two factions in this discussion tend to present examples from the extreme ends of this problem to prove their point.

Fact is: Weight and weight distribution is modeled and has an effect on your plane. But the magnitude is varying with actual weight and it's distribution. Of course a fully loaded P51 with drop tanks suffers enormously, while advantage of shooting off your 100lbs MG ammo in a 190 (wich is stored close to the center of gravity!) is a more theoretical one. The choice of taking 8 guns with 425 rounds or 6 guns with 267 rounds in a P-47D has a bigger and much more noticeable effect because it's way more mass both absolutely (688lbs) as well as relative and further this mass is located far away in the wings.

[bj229r]

Ya can hit E6B and start firing, see plane weight drop...albeit not drastically

[LYNX]

Well Hello again Batfink:rolleyes:

In response to your erratic 2 part post to me above I'll reply to each part individually.

Part1 Ref:- ranging with 7.9's MG's
As for knowing the sprits are 20 mill if you fire the 7.9's and get sprits you can then just bang off a bunch of 20's.

with all due reespect lynx, some styles of flying you wouldnt stand a chance in hell of hitting first with Mgs then banging out a few 20mm.

You make a very valid point.  One of which I concur wholeheartedly especially when it comes to snap shots.  However, wouldn't the snapshotie be aware of the all or nothing moment?  A bit of common sense really.

that situation is only available when chasing a noob who isnt evading very much or trying to reverse the attack back onto you.

To say "is only" is a very bold statement.  I think your trivialising by dismissed many situations where it is possible to get range with the MG's then bang off the cannons.  A very basic example being when an opponent fluffs his rope.  

with the very best pilots, who usually always beat me in the DA, neither of us ever gets more than a snapshot, there is simply no chance of what you describe happening.

Didn't say or imply there was in my reply to Vulcan's use of TRACERS OFF.   Back in the real world or rather the virtual MA world Batfink .  We don't always fly against the very best that beat you.  Not every fight is a heart stopping, white knuckle, balls out, in ya face, thumping good, blah blah blah "bloody good show" type of fight....is it ???.  

Which brings us to
Part 2 ...diatribe

What on earth this has to do with anything related to my response, AS QUOTED, to Vulcan gawd only knows.  

you have avoided and twisted every good point i have made...sadly.

In this part of the same post we once again witness your inability to stay focused.  As with the majority of your replies with regards to the BB Myth, you wonder off in tangents.  I've neither "avoided" or "twisted" anything you've said.  Merely brought you back to the point. A prime example is in this very post.
Batfink....yer but what about snap shot.
Lynx........very good point I agree.
Batfink...that won't work on anything but noobs.
Lynx...many opportunities occur for ranging.
Batfink...yer but DA uber fighters.
Lynx... that's not the point

You do this "tangent" malarkey all the time.  If you want to play devils advocate that's fine with me.  Just do a better job of it.

In parting we have this gem.  

im banging my head against a wall with you though, youre so set in your ways you wont even fight a fair one on one in the DA for fun.

Whats the bulletin boards got to do with the DA ?  Whats this to do with ranging with MG's ?  Whats this to do with the ammo myth ? or are you referring to where you went off in tangents in the "Glotty little youth" thread ?  

I'll tell you what it is.  It's a totally irrelevant TANGENT

[B@tfinkV]

Originally posted by LYNX

As with the majority of your replies with regards to the BB Myth, you wonder off in tangents.  I've neither "avoided" or "twisted" anything you've said.

Originally posted by B@tfinkV

lets say you have a duel set up in a 190A5 with someone you really want to beat.

as you fly out to merge the opponent says

'hey im going to dump half my ammo and I've been flying around for 10 minutes already on WEP to burn a bit of fuel off, But you lynx, must fly with the maximum ammo load and have only burnt off enough fuel to get to the merge'

this wouldnt matter a rat's arse to you?

so answer this above question for me then, please. unless you intend to avoid it again.


THAT ANSWER WOULD BE A START.




as for this bollocks....

Originally posted by LYNX

What on earth this has to do with anything related to my response, AS QUOTED, to Vulcan gawd only knows.  

you have avoided and twisted every good point i have made...sadly.

In this part of the same post we once again witness your inability to stay focused.  As with the majority of your replies with regards to the BB Myth, you wonder off in tangents.  I've neither "avoided" or "twisted" anything you've said.  Merely brought you back to the point. A prime example is in this very post.
Batfink....yer but what about snap shot.
Lynx........very good point I agree.
Batfink...that won't work on anything but noobs.
Lynx...many opportunities occur for ranging.
Batfink...yer but DA uber fighters.
Lynx... that's not the point

You do this "tangent" malarkey all the time.  If you want to play devils advocate that's fine with me.  Just do a better job of it.

In parting we have this gem.  

im banging my head against a wall with you though, youre so set in your ways you wont even fight a fair one on one in the DA for fun.

Whats the bulletin boards got to do with the DA ?  Whats this to do with ranging with MG's ?  Whats this to do with the ammo myth ? or are you referring to where you went off in tangents in the "Glotty little youth" thread ?  

I'll tell you what it is.  It's a totally irrelevant TANGENT

Lynx, you poor fellow, you tried to tell me that ammo weight does not matter 'A RATS ARSE'

this is where you are wrong, blatantly and amusingly.

every single point i have tried to make in this thread has been related to your high horse provoked bullchit that the weight of ammo does not matter at all.

never once did i specify that i was only talking about the dumping of BBs in a 190. I have only ever been trying to dispell the constant flow of misinformation you have spouted at the new guys about ammo weight not mattering a rat's arse.






You know what makes me chuckle the most?

both of us have made such a pig's ear of this thread that the likely hood of a new guy paying any attention to what we are debating is now next to nothing.

[evenhaim]

this whole campaign i had an average hit % of 12-13 before i left then a week before i ended my campaign i turned of tracers and hit % plummeted to 9.3 or something....

and i typically do take crazy shots i guess i just acutally hit sometimes go figure:p

[E25280]

Originally posted by HaDeSs
I have wright it many times that separation of Attack and Fighter modes
is wrong.

I explain.. what more simple and more fair than to add attack points when you attack in gvs, lets say,
and fighter points when you kill poor pilots. Automatically.
 In the same fly.

Why i should loose points (if someone cares) if i kill a ack with 90-100%
accuracy because i have choose fighter mode?

or doesnt count a kill after a dogfight if i was out for attack mode on gvs ?

The manual selection of modes must stop.
Points must go in attack when you kill targets on ground and on fighter when you kill everything who fly.

Same fly, automatically.

So simple. And so fair.

If you are killing the acks in fighter mode, the only stat it adversely affects is your hit percentage -- and then only a little if you are a good shot and kill the ack right away.

Killing planes still helps your attack score.  

Splitting hit percentages between fighter and attack automatically would be impossible -- how can you code so that the game decides accurately what stat to affect when you miss your target?

[LYNX]

Batfink

In answer to your post above
Batfink
so answer this above question for me then, please. unless you intend to avoid it again.

which was
Batfink
lets say you have a duel set up in a 190A5 with someone you really want to beat. as you fly out to merge the opponent says 'hey im going to dump half my ammo and I've been flying around for 10 minutes already on WEP to burn a bit of fuel off, But you lynx, must fly with the maximum ammo load and have only burnt off enough fuel to get to the merge' this wouldn't matter a rat's arse to you?

To this I've already replied but here it is again.
LYNX
 Here's a thought for you. This thread was supposedly about hit% in the MA but if I'm to be drawn on any aspect of your little fantasy above I can only tell you the truth. Everyone in the MA including you and I  do this every time we take our virtual planes to the virtual fight.
 We (collectively) have no idea what the enemy planes present fuel or ammo state is. Neither do they of ours. We fight with a limited knowledge of the enemies planes statistics and general performance. Supposedly safe in the knowledge of our own planes abilities and our present state of ammo, fuel, "E" state and our own abilities as virtual AH fighter aces

Now you either win the fight or you lose. Simple as that. You didn't win because you pissed away your 190A5 BB's, 110's rear gun, D3a rear gun, Spits 303's or 50 cals you won because you gained an advantage in the fight. You lost the fight because you gave an advantage to the enemy. It isn't down to BB load outs mattie and all your doing is perpetuating a AH myth. To which my standard answer through out this thread has been It don't matter a RATS ARSE .

Unfortunately me old fruit cake you are starting to come across as an arse that doesn't matter.

The answer above clearly wasn't good enough for you.   FACTUAL in it's ethos I thought.  Equates exactly to the hypothetical question you posed but within the realms of reality , in our virtual world.   By saying "do this every time we take our virtual planes to the virtual fight." (in bold above) you need to read that as.....  I wouldn't and don't give a rats arse if the opponent has less fuel and less ammo equaling less weight because we do it day in day out.

Batfink
Lynx, you poor fellow, you tried to tell me that ammo weight does not matter 'A RATS ARSE' this is where you are wrong, blatantly and amusingly.

Really?  Guys that believe the ammo myth generally only do it in a few planes.  Meaning I haven't seen this done in every plane just a few types typically 190's and 110's.  I have seen it done in others but not so prolifically.  


Lets have a look at some ammo weights.
 
190A5 MG's 7.9's weigh in at 117Lbs and as previously posted are stored near centre of gravity.  117Lbs to me and you is a little over 7 Stones.  That's equal to a chilled.  I weigh approximately 200 Lb that's about 13 Stone.

110G2 7.9 rear gun ammo was harder to define because you have to unload on the fly. I approximated it roughly 85Lb that's a little over 5 Stone.  25Lb less than a bag of spuds.

blatantly and amusingly.[/B] you say!  Very apt choice of words at this juncture.  These are the weights the myth prevails to.  Their a fraction percentage wise of the overall planes weight.  These are the weights that you keep punting as making a difference.  These my friend are the weights that I say don't matter a rats arse.




Now your just trying to riddle out of the argument of the BB myth.  Lets have a look at what prompted your reply in the beginning.  
LYNX
Include those that believe the myths of emptying out BB's because the plane handles better

Now you come up this this utter utter bollock.

Batfink
every single point i have tried to make in this thread has been related to your high horse provoked bullchit that the weight of ammo does not matter at all. never once did i specify that i was only talking about the dumping of BBs in a 190. I have only ever been trying to dispell the constant flow of misinformation you have spouted at the new guys about ammo weight not mattering a rat's arse.

I concur you wasn't specifically talking of the 190.  We both used it as an example after it was mentioned in a replies.  However Batfink, to even suggest it's never been about BB's leaves me with shear contempt of your inadequacies.

Your initial reply was to the BB myth------>>Include those that believe the myths of emptying out BB's because the plane handles better
 Everyone else following this thread and our replies to each other have understood it to be about the BB MYTH yet in this late stage even after you have made previous references to BB's your saying it's not.

Batfink
but i never said that dumping the BBs in a 190 was hugely beneficial what i do say is 'it makes a difference'

Batfink you are THE ARSE THAT DOES NOT MATTER.




To anyone reading this thread the myth is about deliberately blowing out the small calibre ammo because it gives you magical powers that will allow you to vanquish your enemies.  IT"S COMPLETE BOLLOCKS

[BaldEagl]

Bat, I didn't have time to read every post but I have to agree with Lynx on this one.  I don't think dumping bb's makes a difference.

I always fly with full fuel in every plane (except heavy bombers) and sometimes drop-tanks.  Most times I won't drop drop tanks until they are empty, even in a fight.  Particularily in Spits, I often find myself RTBing with the sipper still attached.

Fuel weight has a much larger effect than ammo weight and I hardly notice the additional fuel anymore.  If fact, I would venture to guess that the drag created from the drop tank is more noticable than the extra weight itself which explains why the sleek sippers on the Spits I don't notice but the big drops on the F4U's for instance, I'm anxious to get rid of.