Author Topic: Stick Scale  (Read 2726 times)

Offline Condor

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Stick Scale
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2007, 10:49:48 PM »
If you want to use the numbers you have to paste them into the jsm file.  You can set up your scaling in the map controllers advanced screen but the numbers don't show there.
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Offline DoNKeY

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Stick Scale
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2007, 12:47:33 AM »
Cool thanks.  Do these numbers help reduce bounce riding the edge, and at high speeds?
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Offline Rolex

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Stick Scale
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2007, 01:13:00 AM »
Nose bounce is elevator function, so yes.

I can't think of any reason to not have a 1:1 ratio of stick throw to control surface deflection for ailerons. The subjective term "agility" of an aircraft is directly proportional to roll rate, so I have aileron sliders all the way to the top. Try it and you'll see a difference. You can always change it to anything you want if you prefer to inhibit your roll in the initial stages of throw. Why you want to inhibit roll would be a mystery known only to you... :)

Remember that the type of aircraft, type of fights and your method of flying all play a part in determining your stick settings. These are AKAK's settings and he flies only one aircraft, generally only one way, so it is not a cure-all or right for everyone. There are people who fly with all sliders all the way to the top, because they have the smoothness to fly it that way. There are others who fly well with default settings.

Offline goober69

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Stick Scale
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2007, 11:47:01 AM »
yea i think im going to go back to no scaling with alerions, though it did make it easyier when i was slow and it takes exact alieron input to keep from stalling a wing and fliping, but when fast it was limiting me a little

big differnce in the 190d
flying as Marvin57
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Offline stickpig

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Re: Stick Scale
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2008, 06:31:51 PM »
the link has no file to download. Do you have it anywhere else?
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Offline mtnman

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Re: Stick Scale
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2008, 07:24:51 PM »

I'm one of those who has all the sliders lined up right across the top, for all my controls.  I personally don't like any scaling at all, as I feel it leads (me at least) to training myself to overcontrol.  I tried it, and found it be detrimental to my flying.

Basically, the scaling makes your stick less sensitive at low throws, but still gives you full deflection at full throw.  That means your stick is mushy and insensitive near center, but gets more authoritative/sensitive as you near the limits of your joystick throw.  So you can (and must!) move your stick quickly near center for small inputs, but must slow down your inputs as you give more stick.   A small movement near center gives very little effect, but that same small movement with more throw will give a large effect!

IMO, it leads to less refined control across the whole range, because the amount of control you will be inputting varies.  A 10% movement of your stick won't give you 10% additional control surface throw.  It'll give you less than that at first, but more than 10% later.  How can that be a good thing?

Sounds like a great recipe for frustration and nose bounce to me, but that's just my opinion...

By putting your sliders all up at the top, 5% stick throw gives you 5% control surface movement.  25% stick= 25% control surface movement.  75% gives you 75%.  Pretty simple and straightforward.  Need a little throw?  Give a little stick movement...

By putting your sliders on a gradual scale, a 5% stick movement might yield a 2% control surface throw.  A 25% might give you 10-13% throw.  50% will give you LESS THAN 50%.  Great, you can (and must) move your stick rapidly with little initial effect.  Now what?

Now, when you need "just a Little more", you're going to get a LOT more instead.  That's because 100% stick is still going to give you 100% control surface movement.  So at some point you need to make up for what you've lost, and that means that at some point an additional 25% stick movement will eventually give you MORE THAN 25% control surface movement.

When is that likely to affect you?  When you have medium-high control surface throw (as in a slow stall-fight, especially when you need just a bit more elevator to get a shot, but not quite so much that you break over the edge and stall).  That's precisely when you need fine, predictable control, and (thanks to scaling) precisely when you WON'T get it!

It may work for some people.  I guess I see it differently.  If it works for AKAK, I see it like this- AKAK is able to get decent control even though he's handicapped himself by scaling his stick.  Maybe that's not a bad thing, especially for me, hehe!  I see it a lot like I see Stall Limiter- best when I don't use it, and the other guy does.

Again- I freely admit to being opinionated. 

MtnMan

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Offline Murdr

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Re: Stick Scale
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2008, 08:02:31 PM »
Again- I freely admit to being opinionated. 

A lot depends on the stick a player is using also.  Some sticks will inherently have problems with nose bounce without scaleing.  It still comes down to what an individual feels comfortable with though.

Here's a previous thread on this topic where I posted mine http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,218269.0.html

Offline mtnman

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Re: Stick Scale
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2008, 10:02:56 PM »
A lot depends on the stick a player is using also.  Some sticks will inherently have problems with nose bounce without scaleing.  It still comes down to what an individual feels comfortable with though.

Here's a previous thread on this topic where I posted mine http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,218269.0.html

I suppose you're right about that Murdr.  I've really only tried two sticks (Saitek Cyborg, and Aitek X52), and have never seen anything I could call "nose bounce".  I honestly don't even know exactly what is meant by that term.

The closest I've seen is what I consider "over-controlling"- but that's my problem, not the stick.  That got much worse for me when I tried scaling.  It went away when I got rid of the scaling.  The next closest thing I've seen is when my stick starts spiking- I fix that by getting a new stick.  I do fly with a "light hand" though, probably left over from flying RC as a kid.
MtnMan

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Offline BnZs

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Re: Stick Scale
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2008, 11:54:32 PM »
I've been trying it unscaled. Strangely, I'm not sure I notice much difference.. I assume just turning off scaling for a given axis does the same thing as sliding the sliders all the way up...
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Offline Newman5

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Re: Stick Scale
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2008, 12:51:44 AM »
What's the downside to 10% input = 10% output, etc.?  I guess its just all personal preference though, as many have stated.
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Offline BnZs

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Re: Stick Scale
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2008, 11:26:39 PM »
Okay, I have been flying with the scaling turned off for a week or so now.

I think it has made it easier to make a small input correction when taking a shot in the air.

OTOH, it has made fine aim tuning in a tank harder...no big deal, just click the scaling back on.
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline Newman5

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Re: Stick Scale
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2008, 11:30:26 PM »
Okay, I have been flying with the scaling turned off for a week or so now.

I think it has made it easier to make a small input correction when taking a shot in the air.

OTOH, it has made fine aim tuning in a tank harder...no big deal, just click the scaling back on.

Can you turn on the scaling in one mode, i.e. GV mode, and have it off in the other mode?  Or is it all or nothing?
"Hello, Newman."

Offline bmwgs

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Re: Stick Scale
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2008, 11:57:49 PM »
Can you turn on the scaling in one mode, i.e. GV mode, and have it off in the other mode?  Or is it all or nothing?

You can set them separately under plane mode and vehicle mode.

Fred
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Offline Newman5

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Re: Stick Scale
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2008, 11:58:48 PM »
You can set them separately under plane mode and vehicle mode.

Fred

Perfect, I'll give it a whirl.  Thanks.
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Offline Ghosth

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Re: Stick Scale
« Reply #29 on: November 20, 2008, 07:37:03 AM »
IF you are running CH gear, IF you wise in the ways of the force like akak, with good hands then by all means, give it a shot. However I have lost count of the number of people who have tried his setup, and end up back in the TA unable to fly. So do it wisely, backup your originals first!

Mtnman I don't agree with you on this concept.
"So you can (and must!) move your stick quickly near center for small inputs, but must slow down your inputs as you give more stick. "

But I can't think of an easy way to prove it one way or the other.
But I really don't move the stick any faster or slower.
The only time I think what your saying would actually happen is if you are trying to hold to an exact steady 3 Gee's.

I'll be the first to agree that setting scaling is NOT for everyone. If you have very good gear, several years in game, and good hands you can probably learn to do with out it. And probably benefit from doing so. With crisper faster responce's.

My problem is all the guys who are new to the game, who do NOT have CH gear, who do NOT have trained hands.
Who do NOT remember how to undo what they have done. Then end up in the TA begging me to fix it please.