Author Topic: 17 Christians Convicted in Indonesia  (Read 880 times)

Offline Trell

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17 Christians Convicted in Indonesia
« on: July 29, 2007, 10:51:02 PM »
Guess it is just not those evil Muslims that do this....
Maybe this should be titled "What We Won't Let some Christians  Teach Us"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/26/AR2007072600722.html?nav=hcmodule

Offline Mark Luper

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17 Christians Convicted in Indonesia
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2007, 11:20:27 PM »
These "Christians" they are talking about here... are they followers of Christ or are they some people labled as "christian" ? Seems like bashing Christianity is becoming the in thing to do. Are you really that insecure about yourself Trell?

Mark
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Offline Elfie

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« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2007, 11:21:02 PM »
Difference between Christians and Muslims is, I'll come right out and say what they did was wrong and they are right where they should be....in jail. Christ's teachings don't condone this sort of behavior.
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Offline Habu

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« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2007, 06:34:01 AM »
I lived in Indonesia.

It is not about religion so much as it is a war. If you do nothing the gangs of Muslims wipe you out. If you respond in kind the gangs of Muslims lose support from the villagers and they weaken.

The biggest deterrent to killing is the knowledge that you will be punished if you do. The two religions coexist when each is aware of that fact. Else the radicals win and one is wiped out.

Offline Trell

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« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2007, 07:17:54 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mark Luper
These "Christians" they are talking about here... are they followers of Christ or are they some people labled as "christian" ? Seems like bashing Christianity is becoming the in thing to do. Are you really that insecure about yourself Trell?

Mark


Bashing any religion seems to be the thing to do. The only difference is  the bashers of the Muslims seem to be the defenders of the Christians.   I don't believe these are "good" Christians,  the same way i don't believe all the Muslims blowing up stuff are "good" Muslims

storch

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17 Christians Convicted in Indonesia
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2007, 08:49:53 AM »
if you come into my neighborhood, kill or rape then drag off my friends and I know for certain where you live, guess what.  

it's pretty easy to point fingers from the relative safety of a western european or american society, especially america where we are well intergrated and the moslems who came here like it here.  what many of us fail to understand is that in places that are moslem governed the only thing people understand is that if you intend to harm me I will retaliate.  if I am able to retaliate ten fold so much the better.  if you kill mine I will kill all of yours, your friends your dogs your hens your goats your camels and your fleas.  if you are out numbered ten to one you have to be more ruthless than the ten if you expect to survive.  the moslem governments in those types of countries will always side with the moslem murderers.  that statement has beem amply proven throughout all of moslemdom since the middle ages.

I say good on those christians.  that's the way things are done in those places.  the aggressors always set the tone of a fight.  that should teach those moslems that jihad can be a cross cultural tenet.

Offline Trell

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« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2007, 09:05:45 AM »
I have a close friend that spent 4 years in Indonesia working as a teacher/Missionary. She never had these problems you seem to think are everywhere in that evil Muslim country...

Maybe it is just as easy to think every one not Christian as Evil?

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2007, 09:16:21 AM »
trell... what it is easy for logical people to see is...

it is easy to see numbers and results is what it is easy to see.

ok.. we got 12 christians out of... how many?  who are cheekbones killers...

Now.. lets compare that with suicide bomber muslims and terrorists.... out of... how many?

in each case.. you are talking a small amount percentage wise...  It is just that on a grand scale... you are thousands of times more likely to be killed by a muslim fanatic than a christian one.

In almost all civilized countries... you have no fear of christians but..  a muslim terrorist killing you is a real possibility... they do it on a regular basis in almost every civilized country... using 9th century ideals they will not comprimise on.

in craphole backward countries... all bets are off... everyone is looking for an excuse to kill everyone else.   religion is just their excuse.

lazs

Offline Habu

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17 Christians Convicted in Indonesia
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2007, 09:54:06 AM »
Trell

The fact you don't mention the island she was on show me you know very little about the subject.

Indonesia is not one big homogeneous country. It is a whole bunch of islands with totally different peoples living on each one.

If you knew anything about the island in question you would know that the people there were Christian and the people who are Muslim were trans-migrants settled there in the last few decades.

It is a volatile mix.

Offline Trell

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« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2007, 10:11:01 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Habu
Trell

The fact you don't mention the island she was on show me you know very little about the subject.

Indonesia is not one big homogeneous country. It is a whole bunch of islands with totally different peoples living on each one.

If you knew anything about the island in question you would know that the people there were Christian and the people who are Muslim were trans-migrants settled there in the last few decades.

It is a volatile mix.


Im's Sorry I Didn't know you asked me what island she was on.  You did ask that right?

Ohh look you also didn't say what island you were on either.  Were you talking about the whole country in your post of just the Island you were on..

 Just as you said,  it is not one big homogeneous country.

But then Neither is the United States.

Btw because you just asked now,  She was in Bandung

Offline Habu

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17 Christians Convicted in Indonesia
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2007, 11:22:50 AM »
I lived on 3 islands when I was there (Kalimantan Java and Sumatra). I also knew of other places I would not step foot in if you payed me. Your friends opinion based on her experiences in Bandung are not relavent to what is happening on Sulawesi.

My original post is totally valid.

Your friends opinion about Indonesia has no relevance to what is happening in Sulawesi. If she lived there she would know better what is going on there.

I worked for a multinational with employees from all over Indonesia working for me. I knew what was happening because they explained to me the situations that I saw in the news. I also travelled all over the place and have run a business importing from there for the past 15 years.

Your friend worked for a church/charity and would have no contact with anyone outside of the island people she was working with. I am sure in her corner of the country the people were nice.

Offline Masherbrum

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« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2007, 11:27:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
trell... what it is easy for logical people to see is...

it is easy to see numbers and results is what it is easy to see.

ok.. we got 12 christians out of... how many?  who are cheekbones killers...

Now.. lets compare that with suicide bomber muslims and terrorists.... out of... how many?

in each case.. you are talking a small amount percentage wise...  It is just that on a grand scale... you are thousands of times more likely to be killed by a muslim fanatic than a christian one.

In almost all civilized countries... you have no fear of christians but..  a muslim terrorist killing you is a real possibility... they do it on a regular basis in almost every civilized country... using 9th century ideals they will not comprimise on.

in craphole backward countries... all bets are off... everyone is looking for an excuse to kill everyone else.   religion is just their excuse.

lazs
This is spot on, no wonder Trell "chose to look past this one".
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Offline Habu

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« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2007, 11:33:53 AM »
I was not going to mention to him that Bandung is a town in Java and not an Island either.

Do a google on Transmigration Indonesia and I am sure you  will get most of the background to the events that happend with the Christians.

Offline FrodeMk3

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17 Christians Convicted in Indonesia
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2007, 11:38:10 AM »
I was checking out their sentences-What you get for Armed robbery or other medium-severity crimes in the U.S., Is what murder rates in Indonesia.

14 years' for murder, with a terr. conviction tied on it to boot, is pretty light.

When I first read it, I thought they were getting the death penalty or something.

Offline Trell

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17 Christians Convicted in Indonesia
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2007, 11:50:10 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Habu
I was not going to mention to him that Bandung is a town in Java and not an Island either.

Do a google on Transmigration Indonesia and I am sure you  will get most of the background to the events that happend with the Christians.


Thought you would know enough that I named a city and not an island.  you did say you lived there...   That also Keeps me from having to respond with the city she lived in after. i named the island .  There are places in almost any country that i would not step foot on including PLaces in the state I live.  

As I said  you generalized the whole country in your post. then Yell and scream when I do the same thing.