Author Topic: General Obama???  (Read 1122 times)

Offline Sabre

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General Obama???
« on: August 01, 2007, 04:45:28 PM »
Hillary called Obama naive.  I hate to agree with here (on ANYTHING) but it seems to fit.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070801/ap_on_el_pr/obama_terrorism_7

So let me get this straight.  Obama has said from the get-go that invading toppling Saddam, with an international coalition, was bad.  Now, if elected he would immediately pull out of Iraq, send the troops to Afghanistan and (WAIT FOR IT) invade Pakistan?:O  Truly a master of military virtue and foreign policy.  Way to go, 'Bama:aok .  Next time, check to see of the gun is loaded before aiming it at your foot.
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Offline Yeager

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General Obama???
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2007, 05:08:45 PM »
the idea of an untouchable sanctuary inside Pakistan called "the Tribal Lands" really doesn't sit well with me.  Especially when these tribal lands are harboring AQ operatives actively planning more 9/11 attacks against the US.

If it takes a rookie like Obama to get into that sanctuary, then I would be willing to support the guy.  As it is, Bush has done nothing except let loose a caged Tiger in Iraq by deposing the resident zookeeper there, costing an additional 3000 american lives and billions upon billions of our dollars doing it.  

The tribal lands in Pakistan have to be dealt with.
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Offline Masherbrum

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General Obama???
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2007, 07:39:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yeager
If it takes a rookie like Obama to get into that sanctuary, then I would be willing to support the guy.  As it is, Bush has done nothing except let loose a caged Tiger in Iraq by deposing the resident zookeeper there, costing an additional 3000 american lives and billions upon billions of our dollars doing it.  

The tribal lands in Pakistan have to be dealt with.
Absolutely.    I am starting to see Obama in a different light.
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Offline bj229r

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General Obama???
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2007, 08:30:03 PM »
Bin Laden is a rock star in Pakistan---we go into Waziristan enmass, (nothin wrong with little raids) Mussharef either looks weaker than he already is (they tried to assassinate him twice), or he is forced to slap us back to save face, and we lose behind-the-scenes support
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Offline crockett

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Re: General Obama???
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2007, 09:20:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sabre
Hillary called Obama naive.  I hate to agree with here (on ANYTHING) but it seems to fit.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070801/ap_on_el_pr/obama_terrorism_7

So let me get this straight.  Obama has said from the get-go that invading toppling Saddam, with an international coalition, was bad.  Now, if elected he would immediately pull out of Iraq, send the troops to Afghanistan and (WAIT FOR IT) invade Pakistan?:O  Truly a master of military virtue and foreign policy.  Way to go, 'Bama:aok .  Next time, check to see of the gun is loaded before aiming it at your foot.


If you don't understand the difference between Iraq and Afghanistan well you will never understand the point he's getting at. He supports a war on Terror not a war for oil and big money contracts.

An International coalition in Iraq..lol lets get real here.. It was nothing more than a coalition of the willing. Iraq invasion had almost no International support.
"strafing"

Offline bj229r

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Re: Re: General Obama???
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2007, 10:20:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by crockett
If you don't understand the difference between Iraq and Afghanistan well you will never understand the point he's getting at. He supports a war on Terror not a war for oil and big money contracts.

An International coalition in Iraq..lol lets get real here.. It was nothing more than a coalition of the willing. Iraq invasion had almost no International support.


Well...it had the support of the nations who WEREn'T getting cash under the table from Saddam:D
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Offline Mr No Name

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Re: Re: Re: General Obama???
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2007, 10:40:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by bj229r
Well...it had the support of the nations who WEREn'T getting cash under the table from Saddam:D


Soooooooo TRUE
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Offline AKIron

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General Obama???
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2007, 11:00:29 PM »
Sounds good on virtual paper but I have to wonder if he really would sign the order to put the boots on the sand.
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Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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General Obama???
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2007, 11:27:44 PM »
The same people who think Saddam, who murdered thousands,  if not millions, and started two major wars of aggression, should have been left in power, to control the problems in Iraq, are entirely willing to invade Pakistan, causing Musharrif (sp?), who has been a fairly decent but not perfect ally, to be overthrown one way or another. Absolute brilliance. NOT! If you think Iraq is a disaster, remember there are supporters of bin Laden in Pakistan, which HAS nuclear weapons, looking for a reason and an opportunity to over throw the current U.S. friendly regime. Imagine warlord buddies of bin Laden with control over nuclear weapons.
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Offline SaburoS

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General Obama???
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2007, 11:52:47 PM »
As opposed to people that forget or just ignore that Saddam was our ally when we supported if not outright goaded him to invade Iran.
Anyone here actually voiced their disapproval of Iraq's invasion of Iran when he was our ally?
How about when he used chemical weapons against Iranian troops?
Where was the outcry then?

Iraq was better off with Saddam in power that it is now.

We would be better off.

Edit...

I might just vote for Obama. I just don't like nor do I trust Hillary.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2007, 11:55:39 PM by SaburoS »
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Offline crockett

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General Obama???
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2007, 01:34:56 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
The same people who think Saddam, who murdered thousands,  if not millions, and started two major wars of aggression, should have been left in power, to control the problems in Iraq, are entirely willing to invade Pakistan, causing Musharrif (sp?), who has been a fairly decent but not perfect ally, to be overthrown one way or another. Absolute brilliance. NOT! If you think Iraq is a disaster, remember there are supporters of bin Laden in Pakistan, which HAS nuclear weapons, looking for a reason and an opportunity to over throw the current U.S. friendly regime. Imagine warlord buddies of bin Laden with control over nuclear weapons.


You don't seem to understand.. We should be  in a war on Terror. Saddam might have been a total D**kwad but he wasn't supporting terrorism. Also like it or not, the middle east was more stable with him in power. Much more stable than what it is now.

We should have finished the job in Afghanistan before we looked else where. Especially when elsewhere had nothing to do with 9/11 nor a terrorist threat to the US or our allies.
"strafing"

Offline crockett

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General Obama???
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2007, 01:48:27 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SaburoS
As opposed to people that forget or just ignore that Saddam was our ally when we supported if not outright goaded him to invade Iran.
Anyone here actually voiced their disapproval of Iraq's invasion of Iran when he was our ally?
How about when he used chemical weapons against Iranian troops?
Where was the outcry then?

Iraq was better off with Saddam in power that it is now.

We would be better off.

Edit...

I might just vote for Obama. I just don't like nor do I trust Hillary.


Exactly we also gave him the green light to invade Kuwait. We publicly stated that we would not interfere if Saddam invaded Iraq, Saddam took that as a green light. After all we were allies with him at the time.

Of course soon as he did that we changed our tune.
"strafing"

Offline FrodeMk3

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General Obama???
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2007, 02:45:29 AM »
Quote
The same people who think Saddam, who murdered thousands, if not millions, and started two major wars of aggression, should have been left in power, to control the problems in Iraq, are entirely willing to invade Pakistan, causing Musharrif (sp?), who has been a fairly decent but not perfect ally, to be overthrown one way or another. Absolute brilliance. NOT! If you think Iraq is a disaster, remember there are supporters of bin Laden in Pakistan, which HAS nuclear weapons, looking for a reason and an opportunity to over throw the current U.S. friendly regime. Imagine warlord buddies of bin Laden with control over nuclear weapons.


Virg's right, and no one can deny it, that Saddam killed quite some number of kurds, maybe even with poison gas. However, we were pretty quiet about the recent Turkish attacks on the same kurdish area. We're gonna get discredited on the save-iraq-from-genocide excuse if we allow that to continue.

Where the real problem lays with Musharref, is in whether or not he truly is friendly to the U.S., and not actually aiding/hiding the Taliban. We've had to rely heavily, perhaps too heavily, on Pakistan't Intel service, which was in tight enough with the Taliban during the Soviet occupation, to give the Tal's the lion's share of U.S. donated weapons' and logistic support. Myself, I would'nt trust Musharref(or any of his appointed ministers') farther than I could throw them.

Which brings us to the last. Pakistan might prove to be the real Pandora's box of the whole affair. An unstable govt. there, which could lose control of it's weapon stockpile, is one scenario. Another would be an attack/invasion by U.S. forces, which might bring about the voluntary release of Nuclear Weaponry to a determined terrorist group. Then, what do you do? I don't doubt that we could overrun Pakistan the same as Iraq, but even after the whole country's secured, and some nuke's are missing, What then? Especially if one of them is used in a major metropolitan city (MUCH worse than 9/11) and you've already occupied the country of origin? Who do you invade in retribution then? It's when you look down this road, that you realize that it goes into a deep hole. I mean, I'm sure that any military option on the board would include eliminating/neutralizing any weapons' stockpiles that the Pak's have, but I'm sure that if they even sensed hostilities, that any parties interested in obtaining a weapon might be given access to them before any such strikes, or moved or protected from same.

I'm sure that the Pak's intel service's monitor our political and media venues. I'm sure that someone caught that pip by Obama. If so, They may already be preparing for a future confrontation with the U.S., in one way or another...

In this, I really hope that I'm wrong. I don't want anything like this to happen, It would really be the worst thing, to turn on the news, or open up a paper, and seeing a headline about an american city being wiped out by a bomb that ultimately, came from an allied state.

Offline Eagler

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General Obama???
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2007, 06:23:07 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
The same people who think Saddam, who murdered thousands,  if not millions, and started two major wars of aggression, should have been left in power, to control the problems in Iraq, are entirely willing to invade Pakistan, causing Musharrif (sp?), who has been a fairly decent but not perfect ally, to be overthrown one way or another. Absolute brilliance. NOT! If you think Iraq is a disaster, remember there are supporters of bin Laden in Pakistan, which HAS nuclear weapons, looking for a reason and an opportunity to over throw the current U.S. friendly regime. Imagine warlord buddies of bin Laden with control over nuclear weapons.


what he said
there is a reason we haven't invaded the wild wild west of pakistan already
the last thing you want is to have Musharraf lose control of his nukes
this administration realizes that, just wonder if the next one will as well
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Offline Sabre

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Re: Re: General Obama???
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2007, 07:56:22 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by crockett
If you don't understand the difference between Iraq and Afghanistan well you will never understand the point he's getting at. He supports a war on Terror not a war for oil and big money contracts.

An International coalition in Iraq..lol lets get real here.. It was nothing more than a coalition of the willing. Iraq invasion had almost no International support.


Forgive me, but the ignorance and complete lack of historical perspective contained in these statements is mind boggling!  Saddam broke the cease fire agreement, providing legitimancy to the multi-national coalition of over thirty nations that either participated in or otherwise materially supported the invasion of Iraq.  THAT is historical fact.  Of course it was a coalition of the willing.  What else could it possible be?  If you think we had insufficient justification for Iraq, what possible justification could you put forth for armed incursions into a sovereign allied nation?:huh  Mexico is not doing enought to stop illegal immigration and drug trafficing into the US.  Lets invade them!:rolleyes:  

Obama has not support any of the measures or steps taken so far to combat terror.  His statements about Pakistan are simply his attempt to portray himself as tough on terror, and shows his complete lack of the political and military realities.  Instead they reveal a man with no deapth of experience or understanding.  Invade Pakistan?  A nation of 160 million armed with nuclear weapons and a barely contained jihadist leanings?  You think controlling Bahgdad is tough, try a nation with eight times the population and terrain that is tailormade for hit and fade insurgency tactics.

And Crocket, Saddam was supporting terror activities against the West, and providing safe harbor for them (including Al Quida).  That has also been positively established.  That, coupled with his breaking the terms of the cease fire of the first Gulf War and the universal belief by ALL major western intelligence agencies that he was trying to preserve and rebuild his WMD program made Iraq a logical target for prosecuting the WOT.
Sabre
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