Author Topic: graphics?  (Read 6096 times)

Offline Vudak

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graphics?
« Reply #60 on: August 10, 2007, 12:12:30 PM »
Somebody post some old AW screenshots for the gentleman :D
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Offline dedalos

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« Reply #61 on: August 10, 2007, 12:40:12 PM »
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Originally posted by Vudak
Somebody post some old AW screenshots for the gentleman :D


Why?  I don't play that game.  If I ever do I may ask for improvements.  I want my game to be beter, thats all
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline hitech

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« Reply #62 on: August 10, 2007, 01:27:48 PM »
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Why? I don't play that game. If I ever do I may ask for improvements. I want my game to be beter, thats all


Your argument is you wish a game with nicer looking graphics. Translating that statement to mean "a better game" is not necessarily true. So no you do not wish a better game, but rather just make an argument for your wishes and then make  a claim about only wanting a better game. And then try claim that all other people do not wish the same thing.

HiTech

Offline dedalos

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« Reply #63 on: August 10, 2007, 01:35:30 PM »
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Originally posted by hitech
Your argument is you wish a game with nicer looking graphics. Translating that statement to mean "a better game" is not necessarily true. So no you do not wish a better game, but rather just make an argument for your wishes and then make  a claim about only wanting a better game. And then try claim that all other people do not wish the same thing.

HiTech



What???? :huh  Dude, you over analized it a bit don't you think?

What if I used "better looking game"? That better?

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And then try claim that all other people do not wish the same thing.


 :confused:
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline Kami

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« Reply #64 on: August 10, 2007, 08:26:26 PM »
I would consider with all else being equal, that ah2 with better graphics would be a "better" game than ah2 with worse graphics.  Just my 2 cents, I understand others don't want that.

Offline BS8th_Jaw

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« Reply #65 on: August 10, 2007, 09:42:27 PM »
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Let me ask this question then since you didn't answer my last one. Exactly how long have you been flying on-line flight sims?

Many of us have been around since the early to mid '90's, some as far back as the '80's with on-line flight sims.

The ones most popular have always featured "open arenas", those which allowed you to fly whatever you wanted to. Likewise, they have all featured three countries. These two factors alone seem to be key ingredients to on-line success and nessesarily rule out the historical accuracy aspect. Because of that, each of them has also included scenarios to bring that aspect into play for those that want it.


I have been flying flight Sims for over 10 Years, since I was around the age of 13, which goes back into the 90's for me.

Now let me ask you a question, why does it really matter how long I have been around flight Sims or been flying them? Even if people have been around a little bit longer or a lot more longer than I have that doesn't mean that my opinion does not count or isn't as important as the other person - I am still a paying customer.

As I stated before, my beef is not with the game play it is with the graphics ( if you can call it a beef). My point about the game play is this, this style of game play (all planes for all sides) tends to attract people who really aren't as serious about flight Sims as the rest of the crowd. It tends to draw people who are only hungry for the action of a ww2 flight Sim and who aren't entirely interested in the flying part of it. As an example, in il2 servers most the players attempt to work together, fly formation with one another and work as a team. The most teamwork I've seen in this Sim so far (at least on the big arena's) is people helping get someone off another players six. And yes I realize that in the special events that teamwork does happen... but what my opinion is, is I don't believe that it should take a special event to get teamwork to happen in a ww2 Sim, because ww2 was based on teamwork, its the only way the war was won by the allies... which is why I believe that a good ww2 Sim needs to concentrate more on teamwork than anything else. Again this is just my opinion on the whole matter and I'm not trying to get it changed.

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As to the flight models, I'm not a real world pilot but you, I'm guessing, have never flown a WWII fighter either. Therefore, the only guage as to which is more realistic is matching the models in the various sims to real world test data for each specific aircraft. You mentioned that you've done your research. Have you really? Visit the Aircraft and Vehicle forums. Scroll through the topics. Actual test data vs. AH modling is discussed regularily. The players keep the heat on HTC to model these things correctly. That said there is room for improvement in specific models, but I'm convinced that when I hop into whtever I hop into that it's as close to the real thing as I'm going to find in a flight sim.

Whether I've flown a ww2 fighter or not (which btw, I have had the opportunity to go up in a trainer from ww2) the physics that act on a aircraft are all the same physics, all that changes is how the specific aircraft can handle those physics acting upon the aircraft and the performance level of that said aircraft. I have not bothered to read through the aircraft and vehicles forum yet, I haven't gotten to it quite yet but I will in the future I'm sure.

Alot of people who haven't flown a real world aircraft can hop into a Sim of their choosing and instantly say "Its real, it acts like a real plane does" because they haven't had the experience of a real world flight. But until they do hop into a real airplane and take a real flight they really don't have a clue about how a real aircraft works in midflight. (Not hitting on you, just a general statement).

I do believe that they have become very close to accurately portraying the real world aircraft counterparts but some things still need some work.

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Relative to graphics, is there room for improvement? Yes. Is it nessesary? In my opinion no. I will lobby as I'm one of those with an antiquated machine but in other games they provide graphic options which still allow me to play, albeit minus some of the eye-candy, and I'm sure they could do the same here. But that's not the issue in my mind. I'd like to see HTC spend their limited resources on further developing the plane-set/vehicle-set and enhancing gameplay than spending it on developing a new graphics platform that is just fine the way it is, and that has been what they've done in the past.

Don't get me wrong here. I'm not trying to rip on you but I've been around for a long time and for me at least, it's the balance between diversity, playability and immersion. I've never seen it all but HTC does a great job in balancing these things. Why do you think all of these people who have been around so long have all gravitated here?

I'm merrily just attempting to get HTC's opinion on this matter and everyone else's input as well to see what the future holds for this Sim and whether or not it can compete with the larger Sims coming out on the market soon. Because I do believe (and this is my opinion) that when the larger Sims come out on the market with similar game play and much better graphics (SW:BOB) that it will pull a bunch of the player base from this game. Because like stated before, not everyone is a buff for just simply game play and graphics really do matter to people.

I understand the whole part about the balance between the three rules of a game and how to make it popular and I do believe that HTC has done their Homework so to speak and have done a good job with this Sim. It is still my opinion however that this style of game play takes a whole lot of experience away from a player. For example, in IL2 (which is AvA based) when I go up in a p40-E and run into an enemy KI-43 I actually have to work for my kill and it is a great challenge to shoot an enemy plane down. Reason being when you engage an enemy airplane in IL2 if you do not know the stats of that aircraft and how it performs you simply do not shoot it down unless the pilot makes a really stupid mistake.

This is the immersion part of the game, as in ww2 a fighter pilot had to know his enemies aircraft just as well as he knew his aircraft, so he could exploit the strength's and weakness's of the enemy aircraft and come out the victor in the battle.

I feel that in AH2 this does not happen nearly as much because dogfights take place on such a large scale and against so many different aircraft you don't have time to sit and think "ok this ones a f4 well I know that its fast, so my p40 cant really keep up with it, oh and I know I can turn tighter so my options are short" you see the f4 you engage and in seconds the dogfight is over with and then your next target is something completely opposite such as a fw190 or a 109 or usually in AH2 its an American or British aircraft coming at you.

heres what I'm getting at, with this style of game play that the game uses (air, ground, sea) it wouldn't take a special event to recreate the biggest battles in ww2 if the arena's would operate AvA (I can imagine it right now, mass formations of b17's escorted by squadrons of p51's getting jumped by a group of fw190's) (or a large formation of he-111's on their way to bomb out Britain and getting jumped by squadrons of hurricanes and spits) Thats the style of game play im talking about and like I said before yes I realize this happens within the special events but I hate to think thats the only time it happens.

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Your argument is you wish a game with nicer looking graphics. Translating that statement to mean "a better game" is not necessarily true. So no you do not wish a better game, but rather just make an argument for your wishes and then make a claim about only wanting a better game. And then try claim that all other people do not wish the same thing.

IMHO AH2 with a extreme graphics overhaul would really increase the quality of the game, thus bringing more players to the game, thus benefiting HTC in an increase in monthly funds, thus making them happy. Like I stated before, alot of people don't fly this sim because of the graphics. One of my own squadmates is a prime example, he refused to play this game because the graphics sucked or so he said. Yes he is one of the people who likes graphics.

Oh and about the immersion part, don't you guys believe that having better graphics would provide a more immersive feel for the game? Giving the player a better experience? Obviously HTC does or they never would have produced the High Res pack.

Some discussion we're having here, but I would like to request people to attempt to keep it clean... and please try not to flame each other... this is a rather interesting and intelligent discussion but it all can be ruined by flaming... so please if you do not have something to say on the subject of the topic at hand please don't say it at all? That way the discussion can move on (yes I'm a person who likes to have a good debate every now and then)

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Well, if they are it is pure luck. HT does not report to me what his plans are, what he can do, what he is whilling to spend to do them, etc etc. Maybe he does report to them.

My point is that saing we dont need better graphics or that someone should just leave if they dont like something about the game is total BS.
I agree whole heartedly with what you said.

Btw, my ingame name is the same as on the forums. BS8thJaw.

Offline Karnak

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« Reply #66 on: August 10, 2007, 10:21:25 PM »
Il-2 does not model the specific quirks of the various aircraft.  It just uses a generic flight model and tweaks it for wing loading and powerloading.

That is why all the aircraft feel similar.  The A6M does not lock up at 350mph, for example.

Physics do not act the same on every aircraft.  Wing and body shape have a massive effect on how an aircraft performs as speeds, power, weight and altitude change.
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Offline Mr No Name

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« Reply #67 on: August 10, 2007, 10:34:34 PM »
I fly the Il2 series a lot Karnak, I have to completely disagree... The FMs are about the same as AH except you have to work a bit harder to fly the plane...  Individual plane-specific problems are modeled including engines catching fire in jets when you improperly manipulate the throttle.  or the famous FW high speed stalls (grrrrr)

I spend more hours there than I do here and I know the differences in the planes.  I didnt fly the series when it was first released and that may have been the case back then but its nothing like that since PF was released
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Offline Roscoroo

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« Reply #68 on: August 10, 2007, 10:56:24 PM »
"I'm merrily just attempting to get HTC's opinion on this matter and everyone else's input as well to see what the future holds for this Sim and whether or not it can compete with the larger Sims coming out on the market soon."
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 i think its the other way around ... All the other sims have to attempt to compete With Ace's High .
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Offline Vudak

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« Reply #69 on: August 10, 2007, 11:43:47 PM »
With all due respect, since you wanted that friendly debate, and I'm bored ;)

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Originally posted by BS8th_Jaw

Now let me ask you a question, why does it really matter how long I have been around flight Sims or been flying them? Even if people have been around a little bit longer or a lot more longer than I have that doesn't mean that my opinion does not count or isn't as important as the other person - I am still a paying customer.



Indeed you are.  However, you are also one with less experience at this game, and these forums.  As such, you wouldn't, and couldn't, realize certain things.  Such as how HiTech's own personal plane is modelled in this game for him to test things such as "feel."

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As I stated before, my beef is not with the game play it is with the graphics ( if you can call it a beef). My point about the game play is this, this style of game play (all planes for all sides) tends to attract people who really aren't as serious about flight Sims as the rest of the crowd. It tends to draw people who are only hungry for the action of a ww2 flight Sim and who aren't entirely interested in the flying part of it.



I don't understand what you're trying to say here at all.  Please clarify.

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As an example, in il2 servers most the players attempt to work together, fly formation with one another and work as a team. The most teamwork I've seen in this Sim so far (at least on the big arena's) is people helping get someone off another players six. And yes I realize that in the special events that teamwork does happen... but what my opinion is, is I don't believe that it should take a special event to get teamwork to happen in a ww2 Sim, because ww2 was based on teamwork, its the only way the war was won by the allies... which is why I believe that a good ww2 Sim needs to concentrate more on teamwork than anything else. Again this is just my opinion on the whole matter and I'm not trying to get it changed.



No offense, but that basically strikes me as the common, "people should have to play my way" philosophy.  To be blunt, I have news for you.  You're never going to get that to happen.  There is no real way to *force* people to use group tactics, play as a team, whatever, in the MA, or in Il-2.  You've simply encountered a group of people who enjoy working as a team in Il-2, and have yet to encounter one of the many groups of people who enjoy doing the same in Aces High.

Check around the squads, fly with a few.  Some are very teamwork-centered, while others have a much looser structure.  Different strokes and all.

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Whether I've flown a ww2 fighter or not (which btw, I have had the opportunity to go up in a trainer from ww2) the physics that act on a aircraft are all the same physics, all that changes is how the specific aircraft can handle those physics acting upon the aircraft and the performance level of that said aircraft. I have not bothered to read through the aircraft and vehicles forum yet, I haven't gotten to it quite yet but I will in the future I'm sure.

Alot of people who haven't flown a real world aircraft can hop into a Sim of their choosing and instantly say "Its real, it acts like a real plane does" because they haven't had the experience of a real world flight. But until they do hop into a real airplane and take a real flight they really don't have a clue about how a real aircraft works in midflight. (Not hitting on you, just a general statement).



There are many, many real life pilots in this game, including the owner.  HiTech has even flown a P-51 before.  Have you?

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I do believe that they have become very close to accurately portraying the real world aircraft counterparts but some things still need some work.



And when HTC finds something is wrong, they tend to fix it.  If they don't, we all scream bloody murder :D Of course, they don't fix things on a whim.  They rely on solid data.

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I'm merrily just attempting to get HTC's opinion on this matter and everyone else's input as well to see what the future holds for this Sim and whether or not it can compete with the larger Sims coming out on the market soon. Because I do believe (and this is my opinion) that when the larger Sims come out on the market with similar game play and much better graphics (SW:BOB) that it will pull a bunch of the player base from this game. Because like stated before, not everyone is a buff for just simply game play and graphics really do matter to people.



If graphic quality is what is most important to them, by all means, they should enjoy themselves with Il-2.  Aces High is, however, plenty good enough for me :)

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It is still my opinion however that this style of game play takes a whole lot of experience away from a player. For example, in IL2 (which is AvA based) when I go up in a p40-E and run into an enemy KI-43 I actually have to work for my kill and it is a great challenge to shoot an enemy plane down. Reason being when you engage an enemy airplane in IL2 if you do not know the stats of that aircraft and how it performs you simply do not shoot it down unless the pilot makes a really stupid mistake.



Are you saying that it is not challenging for you to shoot down planes in Aces High?  If so, you're either the next coming of Leviathan or simply running into less talented/experienced players.

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This is the immersion part of the game, as in ww2 a fighter pilot had to know his enemies aircraft just as well as he knew his aircraft, so he could exploit the strength's and weakness's of the enemy aircraft and come out the victor in the battle.



We have to do this too...  Not being an AvA format doesn't change this whatsoever...  If anything, it doubles the workload...

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I feel that in AH2 this does not happen nearly as much because dogfights take place on such a large scale and against so many different aircraft you don't have time to sit and think "ok this ones a f4 well I know that its fast, so my p40 cant really keep up with it, oh and I know I can turn tighter so my options are short" you see the f4 you engage and in seconds the dogfight is over with and then your next target is something completely opposite such as a fw190 or a 109 or usually in AH2 its an American or British aircraft coming at you.



Oh, you have time to think of it, you're just not experienced enough yet.  Give it time.  It will come.

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heres what I'm getting at, with this style of game play that the game uses (air, ground, sea) it wouldn't take a special event to recreate the biggest battles in ww2 if the arena's would operate AvA (I can imagine it right now, mass formations of b17's escorted by squadrons of p51's getting jumped by a group of fw190's) (or a large formation of he-111's on their way to bomb out Britain and getting jumped by squadrons of hurricanes and spits) Thats the style of game play im talking about and like I said before yes I realize this happens within the special events but I hate to think thats the only time it happens.



We actually have a dedicated Axis vs. Allies arena...

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IMHO AH2 with a extreme graphics overhaul would really increase the quality of the game, thus bringing more players to the game, thus benefiting HTC in an increase in monthly funds, thus making them happy. Like I stated before, alot of people don't fly this sim because of the graphics. One of my own squadmates is a prime example, he refused to play this game because the graphics sucked or so he said. Yes he is one of the people who likes graphics.



Graphics do get updated from time to time, but it is a small team that has other things on its plate.  Primarily, producing CT, which IS the AvA, teamwork oriented, total immersion game that you have been asking for in much of your essay.  You can't have it all at once, you know.

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Oh and about the immersion part, don't you guys believe that having better graphics would provide a more immersive feel for the game? Giving the player a better experience? Obviously HTC does or they never would have produced the High Res pack.



Sure, but my, and apparently, most of the customer basis' priorities are different.  If graphics were our #1 priority, we wouldn't be here.  We have other options, as you've stated.

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Some discussion we're having here, but I would like to request people to attempt to keep it clean... and please try not to flame each other... this is a rather interesting and intelligent discussion but it all can be ruined by flaming... so please if you do not have something to say on the subject of the topic at hand please don't say it at all? That way the discussion can move on (yes I'm a person who likes to have a good debate every now and then)



Ok, now you're asking for the world :D
Vudak
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Offline Krusty

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« Reply #70 on: August 11, 2007, 01:47:58 AM »
3 things I'd like to add to:

1) Teamwork in AH main arenas. It's there. However, in IL2 you get a "pitched battle" where 1 flight of enemy slams head first into 1 flight of friendly (for example). You slug it out until one side is dead. Aces High has a constantly moving amorphous fight, that can dynamically triple in size or peter out and die away. Your wingman dies, he can reup and rejoin you while you're still in the same fight. You die, you can get back to the SAME fight and it's still going on. You may think this is a lack of teamwork. It's a sort of community teamwork. Your country's pilots are all working to help you in that fight, even if they're not on your particular radio channel or winging with you specifically. When you get to know a few folks and make some friends you actually can start winging up, but you have to know who you like to fly with, their flying style, your flying style, if you work well together (if you both have compatible attitudes, etc). Until you wing up with them or join a squad like that, you'll feel somewhat alone. Find some "friends" and the teamwork begins. It doesn't have to be wingman pairs and strict structure, but you're in close proximity and you're covering each other, and the experience is much more fun than without it.

So until you find some folks you don't mind flying with, you will feel there is a lack of teamwork. It's a matter of what you consider teamwork. AH teamwork has a more relaxed attitude, simply because of the dynamics of finding and engaging the enemy. Strict structures of flying only work when there are strict structures of engagement.

2) Your P40 analogy. That applies to any game. Only in this game if a P40 goes up against a zeke the p40 has to stay fast and not turn-fight the zero. You know (of course) that a P40 will be dogmeat it he gets into a turn fight. However, you don't only have to rely on the enemy making a mistake (but this is most helpful!), you simply have to know your strengths and the strengths of the enemy, your situation, your energy states, etc. If you have alt on the enemy you could cut more angles than you would if he had alt on you. In the end, you STILL have to know your plane and the enemy plane. Whether it's AH or IL2. That doesn't make a difference. It's good to fly many planes in AH so you know their capabilities (and better, you know how to kill them!). Once you know this, you won't even have to pause and think "what can he do?" you just instantly know. It's like knowing what a word means. You don't need to think, you look at it and understand due to repetition of its use.

3) Grapics making the game better... Yes and no. I won't say that graphics alone make a game better or worse, but focusing on graphics at the exclusion of important game code and features is a recipe for disaster. Look at HalfLife2. Long-awaited, critically-acclaimed, a masterpiece of an offline game with amazing graphics (which take up much more processing power). However the online play is a farging JOKE. The game is so loathed and hated that both DOD and CS died almost instantly overnight and still have not recovered many years after the fact. HL1 was one of the most interesting game platforms for 5 years after it was obsolete, because of the net code. The models and game limits were ugly as sin, but the gameplay was SOOOOO sweet you didn't care. Take Tribes2. Tribes1 had decent graphics for its time, and better gameplay. I devotd (and I don't use that word lightly) my life to it for 2 years, so wonderful was the gameplay. Tribes2 goes so far out into left field adding new graphics and special effects that it totally rewrites the gameplay and it's no longer fun. It didn't kill the community overnight, but it was a very quick death. So, if you have a good game and try to make the graphics better, that's one thing, but it's a slippery slope where graphics meets game change.

Say you want to make the shoreline look better? Hrm... well now you've got to rework how the entire terrain system works. While you're at it you have to recode how all of the water system works. Now you've got to divide the geometry of the landmass itself to get more complex shorelines, requiring more system requirements, and essentially a massive ground-breaking code change that affects everything from ditches to trees to collisions to runways to GVs to bomb hits to every aspect of gameplay, just to make the shorelines "look better." What I'm getting at is, if you start out just to make things look better for no reason, you have to take into consideration how it's going to change the entire gameplay and code processing of the rest of the game. AH focuses on gameplay changes over graphics changes (but has both). IL2 focuses almost entirely on new graphics and plug-n-play plane add-ons, with very few changes to the underlying code. IL2 sells mostly based on eye candy. AH2 sells mostly based on performance and experience. You can't expect folks here (more concerned with accuracy and realism, so to speak) to worry as much about eye candy when they're already enjoying the game. It would be nice, but we don't want to screw up what's already "working."

Offline BaldEagl

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« Reply #71 on: August 11, 2007, 12:52:43 PM »
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Originally posted by BS8th_Jaw
I have been flying flight Sims for over 10 Years, since I was around the age of 13, which goes back into the 90's for me.

Now let me ask you a question, why does it really matter how long I have been around flight Sims or been flying them? Even if people have been around a little bit longer or a lot more longer than I have that doesn't mean that my opinion does not count or isn't as important as the other person - I am still a paying customer.


I never said that your opinion doesn't count or isn't as important as another persons.  I asked because if you had been around ON-LINE flight sims for any length of time the concept of everything against everything in a three country fomat wouldn't be at all foriegn to you, which it sounds as though it is.

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As I stated before, my beef is not with the game play it is with the graphics ( if you can call it a beef). My point about the game play is this, this style of game play (all planes for all sides) tends to attract people who really aren't as serious about flight Sims as the rest of the crowd. It tends to draw people who are only hungry for the action of a ww2 flight Sim and who aren't entirely interested in the flying part of it.


You are exactly 180 degrees wrong on this.  Stick around for a while, you'll see what I mean.

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As an example, in il2 servers most the players attempt to work together, fly formation with one another and work as a team. The most teamwork I've seen in this Sim so far (at least on the big arena's) is people helping get someone off another players six. And yes I realize that in the special events that teamwork does happen... but what my opinion is, is I don't believe that it should take a special event to get teamwork to happen in a ww2 Sim, because ww2 was based on teamwork, its the only way the war was won by the allies... which is why I believe that a good ww2 Sim needs to concentrate more on teamwork than anything else. Again this is just my opinion on the whole matter and I'm not trying to get it changed.


Teamwork happens all of the time in this game.  Krusty stated it quite well in that teamwork here is more fluid than structured.

Just last night I worked with several countrymen to capture a base.  We were all in communication, knew what each other were doing and were coordinating our efforts to achieve our goal.  

Squads work together constantly in team environments.  Go up against the AK's or the LTAR's some night or beware my own little fighter squad as we set up kills for and cover one another.

Post or join a mission in the MA's.  You can have P-51's covering B-17's as you mention later in this post.

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Whether I've flown a ww2 fighter or not (which btw, I have had the opportunity to go up in a trainer from ww2) the physics that act on a aircraft are all the same physics, all that changes is how the specific aircraft can handle those physics acting upon the aircraft and the performance level of that said aircraft. I have not bothered to read through the aircraft and vehicles forum yet, I haven't gotten to it quite yet but I will in the future I'm sure.

Alot of people who haven't flown a real world aircraft can hop into a Sim of their choosing and instantly say "Its real, it acts like a real plane does" because they haven't had the experience of a real world flight. But until they do hop into a real airplane and take a real flight they really don't have a clue about how a real aircraft works in midflight. (Not hitting on you, just a general statement).

I do believe that they have become very close to accurately portraying the real world aircraft counterparts but some things still need some work.


While I've never piloted a plane both my father and brother were pilots so I've spent some time flying (not counting 1000's of hours in commercial jetliners).

You are correct in stating that physics are physics.  To say that all that changes is how the specific aircraft can handle those physics acting upon the aircraft and the performance level of that said aircraft is an oversimplification.

Consider just a few variables.  Engine performance at varying altitudes, prop thrust vs. engine power, wing lift and critical angle of attack at varying altitudes.

It's not as simple as power vs. weight ratios, lift and thrust.  Each of these is affected differently at different altitudes by different aircraft.

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I'm merrily just attempting to get HTC's opinion on this matter and everyone else's input as well to see what the future holds for this Sim and whether or not it can compete with the larger Sims coming out on the market soon. Because I do believe (and this is my opinion) that when the larger Sims come out on the market with similar game play and much better graphics (SW:BOB) that it will pull a bunch of the player base from this game. Because like stated before, not everyone is a buff for just simply game play and graphics really do matter to people.


You did get his opinion in a manner.  Who do you think you just quoted.

"LARGER sims".  Please explain.

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I understand the whole part about the balance between the three rules of a game and how to make it popular and I do believe that HTC has done their Homework so to speak and have done a good job with this Sim. It is still my opinion however that this style of game play takes a whole lot of experience away from a player. For example, in IL2 (which is AvA based) when I go up in a p40-E and run into an enemy KI-43 I actually have to work for my kill and it is a great challenge to shoot an enemy plane down. Reason being when you engage an enemy airplane in IL2 if you do not know the stats of that aircraft and how it performs you simply do not shoot it down unless the pilot makes a really stupid mistake.

This is the immersion part of the game, as in ww2 a fighter pilot had to know his enemies aircraft just as well as he knew his aircraft, so he could exploit the strength's and weakness's of the enemy aircraft and come out the victor in the battle.

I feel that in AH2 this does not happen nearly as much because dogfights take place on such a large scale and against so many different aircraft you don't have time to sit and think "ok this ones a f4 well I know that its fast, so my p40 cant really keep up with it, oh and I know I can turn tighter so my options are short" you see the f4 you engage and in seconds the dogfight is over with and then your next target is something completely opposite such as a fw190 or a 109 or usually in AH2 its an American or British aircraft coming at you.


It's no different here.  If you don't know your plane and your opponent's inside out your not going to last long.

No, you won't have time to think "ok this ones a f4 well I know that its fast, so my p40 cant really keep up with it, oh and I know I can turn tighter so my options are short",  you'll just know it instinctively and move on to the 190 or the 109 which you'll also know instinctively what tactics to employ against.

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heres what I'm getting at, with this style of game play that the game uses (air, ground, sea) it wouldn't take a special event to recreate the biggest battles in ww2 if the arena's would operate AvA (I can imagine it right now, mass formations of b17's escorted by squadrons of p51's getting jumped by a group of fw190's) (or a large formation of he-111's on their way to bomb out Britain and getting jumped by squadrons of hurricanes and spits) Thats the style of game play im talking about and like I said before yes I realize this happens within the special events but I hate to think thats the only time it happens.


This is a "play my way" type of statement.  That's what the AvA and scenarios are for.

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IMHO AH2 with a extreme graphics overhaul would really increase the quality of the game, thus bringing more players to the game, thus benefiting HTC in an increase in monthly funds, thus making them happy. Like I stated before, alot of people don't fly this sim because of the graphics. One of my own squadmates is a prime example, he refused to play this game because the graphics sucked or so he said. Yes he is one of the people who likes graphics.

Oh and about the immersion part, don't you guys believe that having better graphics would provide a more immersive feel for the game? Giving the player a better experience? Obviously HTC does or they never would have produced the High Res pack.


Sure, I'd love better graphics if it doesn't affect download time, load time, performance or further development related to planes and/or vehicles or gameplay.

I think if you spend the time to visit the Aircraft and Vehicle, Wishlist and Bug Reports forums you'll have a better understanding of where immediate priorities lie in the eyes of this community and a better understanding of the care that goes into modeling the planes and vehicles in the game.

You've still avoided answering the question posed in my first post though.  If you dont like the histirical accuracy, the flight model(s) or the graphics what exactly is it you DO like thats keeping you from going somewhere else?
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Offline thndregg

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graphics?
« Reply #72 on: August 11, 2007, 01:13:13 PM »

This is the thread that doesn't end,
Yes, it goes on and on, my friend.

Some people started posting it not knowing what it was,
And they'll continue posting it forever just because...

This is the thread that doesn't end....:rolleyes:
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Offline bj229r

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graphics?
« Reply #73 on: August 11, 2007, 01:52:09 PM »
Can IL2 be played dialup?
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers

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Offline B@tfinkV

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graphics?
« Reply #74 on: August 11, 2007, 05:19:22 PM »
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Originally posted by hitech
Your argument is you wish a game with nicer looking graphics. Translating that statement to mean "a better game" is not necessarily true. So no you do not wish a better game, but rather just make an argument for your wishes and then make  a claim about only wanting a better game. And then try claim that all other people do not wish the same thing.




im pretty sure this comment relates to thread starter, not dedalos.... ???

what i saw was dedalos saying NO to graphics and YES to the current version of AH2.

i could be wrong.
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