Author Topic: Japan 1945 now in the AvA (Read 949 times)

Panzzer · « **on:** August 10, 2007, 06:31:48 AM »

The beautiful Japan terrain now in the Axis vs Allies arena with the following setup.

RAIN OF FIRE

After three and a half bloody years of savage combat on beaches, in jungles, on the seas and in the skies, the Allies at last are poised on the doorstep of Japan. By night, the full horror of their vengeance is visited on the islands' inhabitants as the mighty B-29s burn their cities to cinders. By day, the blue carrier planes and the silver long-range American fighters bomb and strafe the few remaining targets of significance.
Both sides know that the final amphibious assault of the war - the campaign that will cost a million American lives, and will destroy Japanese civilization forever - is only a few weeks away.

ALLIES (Knights)

On carriers:
F6F-5 (all carriers)
F4U-1C (C77, C89)
F4U-1D (all carriers)
F4U-4 (C79, C90, C92, C95, C97)
FM2 (all carriers)
Seafire IIC (C78, C93, C99)
TBM (all carriers)

At air starts (A88, A122):
P-38L
P-47N
P-51D
B-24J (pretend it's a B-29)

AXIS (Bishops)

A6M5b
Ki-61
Ki-84
N1K2-J
B5N2
D3A1
Ki-67
M-16
Ostwind
(Note Axis air start is at A119)

NOTE ON AIR STARTS:

Look for the blue boxes out in the ocean. Each is associated with a land base (for Allies, typically on the bottom edge of the map). Each blue box has one square filled in. Go to the associated land base and take off in the direction of the filled-in box.
Note that each of the land bases has several air starts. (For example, if an Allied player takes off from A122's north runway, he will begin in Sector 8,1; if he takes off to the northeast, he will begin in 12,1; to the northwest, at Sector 4,1.)

You will begin high in the sky, by the blue box, with your gear down and your engine off. Remember to take care of those two things promptly.

The Japanese air starts are governed by A119, in Sector 6,12. The Allied air starts are at A88 (0,0) and A122 (8,0).

For playability purposes, Allied aircraft can land at A3. However, all aircraft are disabled at that base, so you cannot begin flight from there.

Krusty · « **Reply #1 on:** August 10, 2007, 09:44:21 AM »

IMO when you do late war Japan you need to narrow it to JUST air force or navy, not a mix of both.

There are too many late-war 1945 planes on the US side vs no 1945 planes on the IJA/N side (and only 2 1944 planes, the rest being from '43 and before -- I mean, c'mon, a 1940s B5N2 against an F4U-4?)

I say either do USAF vs Japan, or do USN vs Japan, but that putting almost every plane the US had to offer against a very pathetic Japanese lineup isn't a very good idea.

I know it's all we've got in this game, but working with the tools at hand (the planeset at hand) I think the setup should be balanced based on what is available.

Discuss.

VWE · « **Reply #2 on:** August 10, 2007, 09:54:51 AM »

I don't know but call me crazy! Shouldn't you wait till the Japanese plane set is a little more filled out? I mean this is mid war Japan vs late war U.S. I predict lots of chirping crikets in the aVa this week.

That's nice... B24 air starts... o.k. maybe not crickets chirping just alot of one sided porking.

Widewing · « **Reply #3 on:** August 10, 2007, 10:39:18 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by VWE
I don't know but call me crazy! Shouldn't you wait till the Japanese plane set is a little more filled out? I mean this is mid war Japan vs late war U.S. I predict lots of chirping crikets in the aVa this week.

Filled out with what? The best Japanese fighters available during the war are in the plane set.

My regards,

Widewing

Krusty · « **Reply #4 on:** August 10, 2007, 10:51:02 AM »

The only japanese planes in the war are enabled, because we have a very small selection.

My post brought up the suggestion: If it's so unbalanced, so lop-sided, why not limit the allies to just USAAF or USN? Why compound the existing problem inherrent in AH's planeset by dogpiling every US plane in the war (except the f4f-4 and p40b/e) onto the already minimal IJA/N selection?

dedalos · « **Reply #5 on:** August 10, 2007, 10:59:50 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Widewing
Filled out with what? The best Japanese fighters available during the war are in the plane set.

My regards,

Widewing

What he said. NIKIs and Ki84s are available right? No US plane can play with them cept the F4U4 but only because it can disengage and try to get the advantage.

KONG1 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 10, 2007, 11:01:42 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Widewing
Filled out with what?

A few loaner 163s should make things interesting.

Krusty · « **Reply #7 on:** August 10, 2007, 11:12:56 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by dedalos
What he said. NIKIs and Ki84s are available right? No US plane can play with them cept the F4U4 but only because it can disengage and try to get the advantage.

Er.... you don't get out much, right?

Every late war US plane is a match for both the Ki84 and the N1k2. F4us and F6Fs can turn fight 'em, 51s can energy fight 'em, 38s can turn AND energy fight 'em.

Basically the Japanese get shafted in this planeset.

EDIT: I'm not saying it's a total loss, I'm saying it's overkill.

Oldman731 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 10, 2007, 11:19:10 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
IMO when you do late war Japan you need to narrow it to JUST air force or navy, not a mix of both.

There are too many late-war 1945 planes on the US side vs no 1945 planes on the IJA/N side (and only 2 1944 planes, the rest being from '43 and before -- I mean, c'mon, a 1940s B5N2 against an F4U-4?)

I say either do USAF vs Japan, or do USN vs Japan, but that putting almost every plane the US had to offer against a very pathetic Japanese lineup isn't a very good idea.

I know it's all we've got in this game, but working with the tools at hand (the planeset at hand) I think the setup should be balanced based on what is available.

Discuss.

...er....

We played this setup a month or so ago. In practice, the air starts for the Army planes are far enough away from Japan that the Allied players typically fly from the carriers. Would like to see a Filth-type mission with the 24s and 47s or 51s though, because the capability for an organized high-alt mission are clearly there.

I think the Frank and George are more than capable against any and all the Allied planes. While this particular setup is relatively new, we've run the Okinawa map for years with full 1945 plane sets, and the Japanese players have never felt overwhelmed. The fights tend to be very well balanced, with a lot of fun close-in twisty stuff.

Come try it, see what you think.

- oldman

stockli · « **Reply #9 on:** August 10, 2007, 11:28:59 AM »

The last scenario I did, Operation Downfall

I was a Zeke pilot and we kicked the ever loving crap out of the allies with the "limited" plane selection we had.

Even though the b 24s air spawned in at 25k.

So im not so sure it will be lopsided at all!

Krusty · « **Reply #10 on:** August 10, 2007, 11:36:09 AM »

No, you nearly-suicide-bombed the CVs out of the event.

YOU (axis) got your butts handed to you, plane for plane.

Frame1:
Allied Pilots: 105 Kills: 343 Assists: 246
Axis Pilots: 140 Kills: 187 Assists: 128

Frame2:
Allied Pilots: 99 Kills: 194 Assists: 74
Axis Pilots: 100 Kills: 169 Assists: 57

Frame3:
Allied Pilots: 73 Kills: 132 Assists: 106
Axis Pilots: 81 Kills: 159 Assists: 39

Downfall was called off because the CVs were gone, not because of axis "kicking the allies' butts."

Bronk · « **Reply #11 on:** August 10, 2007, 11:37:32 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by stockli
The last scenario I did, Operation Downfall

I was a Zeke pilot and we kicked the ever loving crap out of the allies with the "limited" plane selection we had.

Even though the b 24s air spawned in at 25k.

So im not so sure it will be lopsided at all!

Yea... no comment.

Bronk

dedalos · « **Reply #12 on:** August 10, 2007, 11:47:31 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
Er.... you don't get out much, right?

Every late war US plane is a match for both the Ki84 and the N1k2. F4us and F6Fs can turn fight 'em, 51s can energy fight 'em, 38s can turn AND energy fight 'em.

Basically the Japanese get shafted in this planeset.

EDIT: I'm not saying it's a total loss, I'm saying it's overkill.

I think you confuse your feelings about a plane and your country with the reallity of this game.

51s dont E fight. They BnZ and extend. Thats not E fighting. Probably the best E fighting plane in the game is the Ki84 followed by the NIKI. The NIKI can E fight and will out turn F4Us, F6Fs, 51s, 38s etc. And dont forget the 0s. You get jumped while slow by one of them and its all over.

P38 cannot turn with them. It can try to E fight if it started with the advantage but at equal E, both the NIKI and Ki84 will kill it.

If anything, I'd say desable the 51s and F4U4s so the cherry pickers don't have any tools to work with or they cannot run to the ack after they fail to pick.

We can try all this if you like

Krusty · « **Reply #13 on:** August 10, 2007, 11:50:41 AM »

Oh brother... No comment.

Bronk · « **Reply #14 on:** August 10, 2007, 11:58:52 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by dedalos

If anything, I'd say desable the 51s and F4U4s so the cherry pickers don't have any tools to work with or they cannot run to the ack after they fail to pick.

We can try all this if you like

Hmm not to stir the pot anymore than it already is.
Ded take that nik or 84 and go up against Widewing in a 4hog.
There is no need to pick in a 4hog.

Bronk