Author Topic: is it gambling? (Read 240 times)

Neubob · « **on:** August 10, 2007, 09:31:11 AM »

Online gambling that is...

A website where there's a community pot up for grabs, and the key to winning this pot is making the biggest (or one of the biggest) contribution(s) to that pot.

An example.

The Website admin makes a $1000 initial seed deposit into this pot. Users then go into the website and deposit funds into it, hoping that theirs is one of the top 5 deposits. After a pre-determined number of hours has elapsed, the game ends and the pot is split between the top 5 players (with 3-5% going to the website).

Because of the payout structure, putting in too much may not yield a profit (top spot pays out 35% of total pot, so doing something like doubling the pot with a single deposit will actually lose you money).

So the question is: Would this be prohibited by the online gambling laws as they are currently drafted. The way I see it, this can be construed as gambling because a person is, in effect, wagering that their deposit is the winner, and in doing so, are risking a total loss of their money.

Opinions?

SIK1 · « **Reply #1 on:** August 10, 2007, 09:38:01 AM »

If you can lose money it's gambling, be it the tables in Vegas, or the stock market.

Neubob · « **Reply #2 on:** August 10, 2007, 09:45:50 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by SIK1
If you can lose money it's gambling, be it the tables in Vegas, or the stock market.

okay, fair enough, but the question isn't one of principle, it's one of legality. Buying and selling stock online, albeit construable as gambling, is still legal.

BigGun · « **Reply #3 on:** August 10, 2007, 10:24:37 AM »

easy, make 5 very large deposits right at the end of the time period with different accounts if necessary & you most likely will win the pot, minus the commission. Whether you make money will depend on how big the pot is excluding your 5 deposits. It has to be bigger than the pot former's take.

BigGun · « **Reply #4 on:** August 10, 2007, 10:27:07 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by SIK1
If you can lose money it's gambling, be it the tables in Vegas, or the stock market.

You buy a stock, you actually own something. You put $20 in the tables, you own nothing. Whether or not you have the ability to lose money is a weak definition of gambling.

Neubob · « **Reply #5 on:** August 10, 2007, 10:32:02 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by BigGun
easy, make 5 very large deposits right at the end of the time period with different accounts if necessary & you most likely will win the pot, minus the commission. Whether you make money will depend on how big the pot is excluding your 5 deposits. It has to be bigger than the pot former's take.

So do you think this can be legally defined as gambling?

BigGun · « **Reply #6 on:** August 10, 2007, 10:34:01 AM »

not sure about legal code, not a lawyer, but I would say tis gambling.

Neubob · « **Reply #7 on:** August 10, 2007, 10:39:02 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by BigGun
not sure about legal code, not a lawyer, but I would say tis gambling.

That's the problem.

I've talked to a couple lawyers about this and, amazingly, I'm getting the same indefinite answer....

"Maybe gambling, maybe not... The Govt may try to prosecute."

SIK1 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 10, 2007, 11:02:01 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by BigGun
You buy a stock, you actually own something. You put $20 in the tables, you own nothing. Whether or not you have the ability to lose money is a weak definition of gambling.

You may own something but if the value decreases you still lost money.

Gamble: As defined by Websters; an act having an element of risk.

As to the original question, it is hard to say, as the laws very from region to region, but from your discription of the game I would say yes it is gambling.

Rolex · « **Reply #9 on:** August 10, 2007, 11:04:44 AM »

Since laws have little to do with enforcing the will of those who govern these days, the "legality" of it may not matter. If you're a big company with lots of customer money to spend on schmoozing, I mean lobbying, and wear a necktie, you can probably get away with it.

As a little guy, I'd say no chance at all.

BigGun · « **Reply #10 on:** August 10, 2007, 11:12:54 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by SIK1
You may own something but if the value decreases you still lost money.

Gamble: As defined by Websters; an act having an element of risk.

As to the original question, it is hard to say, as the laws very from region to region, but from your discription of the game I would say yes it is gambling.

Well with that broad of a definition, just about everything is considered gambling then such as driving to work in the morning.