Author Topic: Elevator exploit (Read 731 times)

GlassJaw · « **on:** August 11, 2007, 04:59:15 PM »

Yet another exploit in the game I've heard of... to get extra lift people use the trim buttons. In a turn fight or possibly at low speed on top of a rope this will allow the aircraft maneuver more than another identical aircraft... in a dive when you've compressed it may allow you to pull out of the dive when you otherwise would not be able to. Hardly a realistic use of a trim tab and in the real world this would not work.

The Fugitive · « **Reply #1 on:** August 11, 2007, 07:13:37 PM »

thats BS, say if full swing of the control surface is 45 degrees, if you trim 10 degrees, you'll only be able to pull the other 35 degrees with the stick.

bj229r · « **Reply #2 on:** August 11, 2007, 07:40:29 PM »

Fail to see how using manual trim is an exploit

Hazard69 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 11, 2007, 10:44:13 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by GlassJaw:
in a dive when you've compressed it may allow you to pull out of the dive when you otherwise would not be able to. Hardly a realistic use of a trim tab and in the real world this would not work.

And you say this because?

I'll have you know that in today's large commercial aircraft the flight control computers do exactly that!:p Trim stabs up so you can't overspeed.

GlassJaw · « **Reply #4 on:** August 13, 2007, 05:32:02 PM »

I'm not going to claim to know anything about comercial airplanes... so fortunatly this post is about WWII combat aircraft.

The reason its an exploit is because due to a game mechanics function, you are able to manuver the airplane in a way that it should not be able to manuver. If you are doing this you are exploiting a function of the game intended for another use.

Krusty · « **Reply #5 on:** August 13, 2007, 05:39:16 PM »

You seem to jump the gun and claim everything is an exploit.

Well, a little searching will show that it's been discussed. Elevators have "X" deflection. Trim only works INSIDE that deflection. It just makes them move inside their own range. You have 0 deflection and the trim will move them "up" or "down" a little, but if you're already at 100% deflection, trim stops there.

Trim is just pressure on the stick. That's how it's modeled. The pressure on the stick changes, not the range of the stick.

EDIT: You should know all this by now. You've been around for many years!

GlassJaw · « **Reply #6 on:** August 13, 2007, 07:12:28 PM »

Your right, I have been around a while and I learned about this from a friend who had been around for far longer. You made me second guess this actually since its been a very long time since I tested it.

From the training arean I took off at a 20k base with a 25% gas on wep in a 109k4. I dove off the airfield at about 60 degrees until full compression occured at about 11k feet. For repeatability I chose the same spot on the ground the aim for durring each test. Pull back on stick w/o removing power and you will auger every time. Add in a little trim to bring the nose up and it will pull up so hard you'll black out from the G's and be level by 8k.

Now, let me play out a senerio:
Say pilot 1 is in a P47 at 20k and another is in a 109.
109 is on 47's 6, 47 dives to get away, sucker 109 tries to follow and compresses badly at about 500 mph, the 47 as we know does not. 47 just got a kill, guaranteed... or should have except the 109 driver just exploited the trim tab.

I agree with your discription of how the trim tabs are supposed to work but thats not how they do in fact work. I encourage you to test it yourself and come back and tell us what happened.

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
You seem to jump the gun and claim everything is an exploit.

Well, a little searching will show that it's been discussed. Elevators have "X" deflection. Trim only works INSIDE that deflection. It just makes them move inside their own range. You have 0 deflection and the trim will move them "up" or "down" a little, but if you're already at 100% deflection, trim stops there.

Trim is just pressure on the stick. That's how it's modeled. The pressure on the stick changes, not the range of the stick.

EDIT: You should know all this by now. You've been around for many years!

moneyguy · « **Reply #7 on:** August 13, 2007, 07:47:24 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by GlassJaw
...exploit.......exploiting.............

hmmm...somebody learned a new word

GlassJaw · « **Reply #8 on:** August 13, 2007, 07:54:34 PM »

Chalenge · « **Reply #9 on:** August 14, 2007, 08:30:26 AM »

I'm all in favor of taking trims away from 109s if you want to go there. I think they were preset on that plane werent they? You could take away WEP from a few planes too. The Mustang didnt have it but could use more or less throttle. But if your going to do that might as well throw in mixture control carb heat and variable cooling settings. But then the game wouldnt be so user friendly now would it?

Krusty · « **Reply #10 on:** August 14, 2007, 08:58:09 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by GlassJaw
From the training arean I took off at a 20k base with a 25% gas on wep in a 109k4. I dove off the airfield at about 60 degrees until full compression occured at about 11k feet. For repeatability I chose the same spot on the ground the aim for durring each test. Pull back on stick w/o removing power and you will auger every time. Add in a little trim to bring the nose up and it will pull up so hard you'll black out from the G's and be level by 8k.

Er... wtf??? What does compression have to do with the range of the elevators and/or exploiting the game?

Like I said you should know better!

Does it really have to be spelled out why this doesn't tell us anything about the range of the elevators?

P.S. What do you think 109 pilots did in WW2 when they were in dives? They used the trim to get out of it. I'm starting to wonder if this isn't a troll?

Clifra Jones · « **Reply #11 on:** August 14, 2007, 12:09:12 PM »

As someone who manually trims every plane I fly, this is about the dumbest thread I have seem.

Krusty · « **Reply #12 on:** August 14, 2007, 12:26:39 PM »

I'd have to agree.

BaldEagl · « **Reply #13 on:** August 14, 2007, 02:52:09 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
P.S. What do you think 109 pilots did in WW2 when they were in dives? They used the trim to get out of it. I'm starting to wonder if this isn't a troll?

Yep, I remember reading about them manually trimmimg to break a compressed dive. Evidently the elevator trim wheel was more difficult to turn than our K key is to push though so that's about the only exploit I see here.

GlassJaw · « **Reply #14 on:** August 14, 2007, 06:36:01 PM »

Ok, I stand corrected on this one.

Quote

Originally posted by BaldEagl
Yep, I remember reading about them manually trimmimg to break a compressed dive. Evidently the elevator trim wheel was more difficult to turn than our K key is to push though so that's about the only exploit I see here.