Author Topic: Ship Convoys and Submarines (Read 878 times)

Easyscor · « **on:** August 20, 2007, 11:42:09 PM »

Subs have been covered better than I want to in other threads by posters who've put more thought into it, so this thread is about making them useful, what you need for subs to work in the game.

Put simply, you need to create bait, something like this to bring the players together:

AI convoys running down a 24 mile track built into the terrain, ending at a Port.
17 convoys per track running 10 minutes apart at ~8 mph.
Random (but mild) zig zag pattern to the convoy path down the track.
Total transit time ~180 min for each convoy.
6 AI ships in each convoy, 102 low poly ships per track.
Each convoy with 1 to 2 AI ack ah la the Trains + 1 Flack gun.

Convoys to Ports affect CV reup time. Port rebuild unchanged from current.
36 convoy ships per hour arrive at the port if unmolested.
Dead CVs don't start to resupply/rebuild until a hardened convoy ship arrives but only 1 ship is needed for the new CV.

Manned defense options:
Convoys have special small Icons for "tower", with clipboard toggle option. No visible "base numbers".
Convoys can spawn manned DEs with depth charges (DC hereafter) and PTs with DC option.
DE Gun positions selected per GVs and Bombers.
Alternately a standard fixed DE capable of hurtling depth charges 2x torp range.
Option: Add Emily with DC or... DC option to… TBM?

Summary details:
24 mile track, max 2 per zone.
8 mph average convoy speed.
17 convoys live on track at any moment in time.
6 ships per convoy, scattered for bomber avoidance.
1500 lb Ship hardness to discourage air attack.
102 ships per track (36 per hour arrive at Port).
204 ships per zone + 68 AI ack = 272 objects per zone max, 2 tracks per zone.
Very small icon mark to reduce clipboard map clutter, icon clipboard toggled.
Hanger for the PT/DEs is the Port's Hanger (no manned ack on AI convoy ships).
Player's spawn point leads the convoy and dies when the convoy is wiped out.
Player's boat spawn is based on selected convoy icon.
Convoy under attack warning message.
One torpedo hit sinks a convoy ship.
CV resupply/rebuild depending on the presence of a convoy ship track.

Nilsen · « **Reply #1 on:** August 21, 2007, 01:25:19 AM »

Im all for well defended convoys with plenty of manned ack available. We dont need more objects for milkrunners to score on.

Easyscor · « **Reply #2 on:** August 21, 2007, 02:48:02 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Nilsen
Im all for well defended convoys with plenty of manned ack available. We dont need more objects for milkrunners to score on.

My suggestion for that included manned DEs and PTs, plus 1500 lb convoy ships. Not impossible to sink but even if a whole fleet is sunk, another arrives 10 minutes later. Remember, the sinking of entire fleets has no affect in this plan unless the CV is also sunk. Then, the odds are still stacked against an extended delay in the CV rebuilding. A CV must be sunk and all the supply ships sunk continuously to have an effect. The more likely the supply ships are to be attacked, the more likely this will develop into a great fight, and that’s what we need for Subs to work.

Nilsen · « **Reply #3 on:** August 21, 2007, 02:54:55 AM »

Well personally i say a big fat NO to subs but thats me.

Easyscor · « **Reply #4 on:** August 21, 2007, 02:57:34 AM »

Then what are you doing in my thread?

Nilsen · « **Reply #5 on:** August 21, 2007, 03:00:36 AM »

I just wanna mess with your head until you change your wish into something that is more in line with what i want. It called lobbying the wrong person

sparow · « **Reply #6 on:** August 21, 2007, 08:35:01 AM »

Easyscor,

Congratulations! This is a realistic and very well planned proposal.

I agree fully with it - contrary to Nilsen, I'm all for subs in AH - and will support it entirely.

Your knowledge of the game systems is deep, something I lack entirely.

For all it's worth, my to this brilliant idea.

Thank you,

Nilsen · « **Reply #7 on:** August 21, 2007, 08:46:23 AM »

Subs in ah would have to be extremly arcade-ish or take many MANY years of development to get right. Just look at the various silent hunter games, and add that to ongoing plane development then you see that unless you want extremly arcade like subs (like pt boats under water) and underwater enviroment its not something i think any AH fan really wants HTC to spend time on. Just look at how long it takes for one plane model that works within the current game engine to go from vote to actual release.

sparow · « **Reply #8 on:** August 21, 2007, 09:12:57 AM »

Yes Nilsen!

You define it perfectly, in a nutshell: I wish AH submarine to be a PT with a new skin and capability to dive to 2 depths.

Period.

No sonar, no battery poisoning, no snorkel, no sea-sickness, no pressure problems, no thermal complications, just a plain and simple up, down, left right, torpedo launch platform with periscope, a gun in the deck and two mgs in the tower...

Is that too arcadish?

Cheers,

Nilsen · « **Reply #9 on:** August 21, 2007, 09:26:04 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by sparow
Y
Is that too arcadish?

Cheers,

very much so

sparow · « **Reply #10 on:** August 21, 2007, 09:32:24 AM »

Ah...I see...

So it's you who I allways watch doing pre-flight inspections on your aircrafts...

I just spawn turn the engine on and firewall it...Not even a kiss to my ground crew, a hug, nothing...

I'm really a pathetic Pilot Officer, a snob...

Cheers,:p

Nilsen · « **Reply #11 on:** August 21, 2007, 10:11:03 AM »

This game has flightmodel that is to good to be dragged down by a joystick controlled submarine who sprayes torpedoes around a poorly developed subsurface enviroment. Sorry, but there are excellent sub sims out there

sparow · « **Reply #12 on:** August 21, 2007, 05:05:24 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Nilsen
This game has flightmodel that is to good to be dragged down by a joystick controlled submarine who sprayes torpedoes around a poorly developed subsurface enviroment. Sorry, but there are excellent sub sims out there

Nilsen,

It would be better to have a joystick controlled submarine than no submarine at all.

This would not be a competitor against dedicated sub sims, would be another addition to AH total war perspective.

Look at how CVs are and how much - although wrong - used they are.

Who never felt like stalking a fleet at periscope height?

Cheers,

Nilsen · « **Reply #13 on:** August 21, 2007, 05:12:12 PM »

Well i dont agree with ya but thats ok.

No sub is better than arcade sub imo

sparow · « **Reply #14 on:** August 21, 2007, 05:26:47 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Nilsen
Well i dont agree with ya but thats ok.

Nilsen,

We do not need to agree individually with one another. All opinions are welcome and there must be different points of view, allways.

But tell me this:

If you saw a dark shadow on the water and a small wake of a tiny periscope when flying a TBM or SDB, would you or would you not drop a bomb to kill it?

Just a plain, simple, honest, yes or no.

Cheers,