Author Topic: Range finder for Naval Guns (Read 1109 times)

PanzerIV · « **Reply #15 on:** August 19, 2007, 12:18:08 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Iron_Cross
I used to be in the Navy as a FC (Fire Control-man) and the system that we have now is quite good. 3-4 ranging shots and I can adjust for range and drift while using the "E" Sea mode. I can even get ships down from 22k. The technique is simple.

1. Engage Sea Mode, by pressing .

2. Zoom in to max magnification.

3. Slew gun to target.

4. Place mouse pointer over a feature of the target (mast, bridge, funnel, ect.).

5. Elevate guns to estimated range.

6. Keep pointer over target, by slewing gun to compensate for target drift,and fire.

7. While slewing to keep pointer over selected target, watch for the fall of your shot. The splash is where you need to move your mouse pointer.

8. Adjust for relative drift of your shot, by slewing the guns to make the mouse pointer rest over the target feature you originally picked.

9. Fire again. Now comes the ranging phase. Watch where the splash happens, if in front of the target add 1-2000 to the range, if the splash is behind decrease range.

The trick here is the transition. When the last shot was say short, and this one splashed behind the target, you have bracketed the target. It is now a mater of fine tuning the range. Make adjustments at 500, 200, 100, and finally 50. It is highly unlikely that you will be on exactly parallel courses, so some fiddling with the range when your shots start to drift is going to happen. Just keep the amount of range drift in mind with each shot, and every shot will hit home.

This procedure is how guns have been laid since the age of sail. It works pretty good. If other turrets are manned the range can be quickly deduced by several means but only with each gunner taking turns firing so that no one gets confused by the others fall of shot, and constant communication as to the range each is firing at.
"A Turret 15.6k, short."
"B Turret 16.9k, short."
"C Turret 18.1k, LONG!"
There you go, all three of you have just narrowed down the range to a band 1.2k wide. If you were alone it would have taken you three shots to figure out that range band.

Clever, I knew youd put your time in the Navy to good use! lol

sparow · « **Reply #16 on:** August 19, 2007, 12:00:48 PM »

Don't you know that Aces High Boot Camp is government funded? How else could we have so many aces? It takes practice...

Kidding,

Cheers

Sabre · « **Reply #17 on:** August 20, 2007, 10:20:00 AM »

Iron_Cross, how do the different AH gunnery modes differ?

I usually use the method you suggest when firing tank guns or naval arty, but have a lot of trouble getting the range when either myself or the target (or both) are moving. I'm just not familiar with what sea mode does different from normal mode or land mode. Thanks.

Sabre · « **Reply #18 on:** August 20, 2007, 10:20:00 AM »

Repeat post...sorry.

Iron_Cross · « **Reply #19 on:** August 21, 2007, 05:41:02 PM »

Land mode, puts your shot on a specific location. However the ship moves all your rounds will hit a very small zone. It calculates ship movement and range to the ground target and adjusts accordingly. However due to limitations a turret cannot point to certain areas that are blocked by the superstructure of your ship, but will pick up again when the gun turret can bear on the target location.

Sea Mode, is different. It keeps a constant bearing and range, like a bomber dropping bombs

This is useful in several ways when attacking seaborne targets. First since both ships are traveling the same speed this makes getting a fire control solution that much easier. If a target is traveling the same speed and on a parallel course it will not change range and will not change aspect (it won't drift left or right as you view it) basically it will stay still in the water relative to you. Since it is a virtual fluke that an enemy would be on a parallel course there will be some drift in both range and aspect, but unless you are on widely divergent courses you have a general idea as to where your shot will end up. As the angle of course divergence approaches zero, the change in range rate and aspect rate approaches zero as well. (IE if the course diverges 3 degrees the target may drift only 30-40 meters, but if it is 70 degrees divergent the target will drift maybe 600-700 meters.)

What you are doing, with the method as I outlined above, is taking out one of the two variables, in this case the aspect rate of change, that will spoil your shot. A third variable, speed is not a factor as all task-groups travel at a constant speed. Range rate of change is what you are correcting for, and that is a heck of a lot easier to compensate for.

Iron_Cross · « **Reply #20 on:** August 21, 2007, 05:59:21 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by PanzerIV
Clever, I knew youd put your time in the Navy to good use! lol

Actually once I got out of FC school, I pretty much swept and moped floors. Talk about a letdown. Here I was trained to trouble shoot faults in computer logic circuits, radar systems, and video displays, and they put a broom in my hand rather than a multi-meter. The new guy tends to get the scut jobs. That is just stuff I remembered from 20 years ago. It also works for tank guns as well.

Sabre · « **Reply #21 on:** August 22, 2007, 09:18:26 AM »

Thanks, Iron_Cross. I thought it was something like that. So in land-mode, you click on the map to get range and bearing, train the gun out to those numbers, and hit the button for land mode, then the turret will remain trained on that spot on the map without player input. Do I have that right? Then, you just make minor adjustments in aszmuth and elevation to zero in on the target.

I'm still a little confused by Sea-mode. You can keep a constant range by simply not touching the elevation. You don't need sea-mode for that. A mode that keeps the gun trained out on a set bearing could be useful, though. It sounds like sea-mode is land-mode without the automatic range adjustment.

Scca · « **Reply #22 on:** August 22, 2007, 11:43:37 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sabre
Thanks, Iron_Cross. I thought it was something like that. So in land-mode, you click on the map to get range and bearing, train the gun out to those numbers, and hit the button for land mode, then the turret will remain trained on that spot on the map without player input. Do I have that right? Then, you just make minor adjustments in aszmuth and elevation to zero in on the target.

I'm still a little confused by Sea-mode. You can keep a constant range by simply not touching the elevation. You don't need sea-mode for that. A mode that keeps the gun trained out on a set bearing could be useful, though. It sounds like sea-mode is land-mode without the automatic range adjustment.

Think of it like this.
Land mode is for when ship moves target doesn't. Sea mode is for when ship moves, so does target you are shooting at.

In Land mode, you want to leave the guns pointed at the same point on the map. If Ship moves 500 feet north, round still impacts same spot.

In Sea mode you want to leave the guns pointed so the round will land at the same distance away from the ship it did the last shot relative to ship movement. Ship moves 500 feet north, round will impact 500 feet north of last impact point.

At least I THINK that's what the difference is.

Iron_Cross · « **Reply #23 on:** August 22, 2007, 06:14:44 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sabre
Thanks, Iron_Cross. I thought it was something like that. So in land-mode, you click on the map to get range and bearing, train the gun out to those numbers, and hit the button for land mode, then the turret will remain trained on that spot on the map without player input. Do I have that right? Then, you just make minor adjustments in aszmuth and elevation to zero in on the target.

I'm still a little confused by Sea-mode. You can keep a constant range by simply not touching the elevation. You don't need sea-mode for that. A mode that keeps the gun trained out on a set bearing could be useful, though. It sounds like sea-mode is land-mode without the automatic range adjustment.

In Sea Mode you basically have direct control of the turret. Land Mode has a rudimentary fire control computer that takes several variables like; course, speed, range, time of flight, and crunches the numbers so that the rounds impact virtually the same spot on the map. Land Mode will adjust for your movement. It will slew the turret to compensate for relative drift in aspect, as well as range.

Let me give you an example.

Two cars are traveling North, at 60 Km/H. One could easily throw a tennis ball from one car, and easily hit the other car. To each driver/observer the other car is quite still. (Sea Mode)

Now someone wants to throw a tennis ball at a stationary target on the side of the road. If they throw the tennis ball directly at the target as they pass perpendicular they will miss. The tennis ball is also traveling North at 60Km/H, so it will miss by the same distance that the car traveled while the tennis ball was in flight.

If you know the speed your traveling at, and the time of flight for the tennis ball, you can throw the ball at a point in front of the target so that it hits the target when it reaches the end of its flight. (Land Mode)