How well does AH produce spin behavior?

[Uriah]

First, I am posting this at many different sim games so it is not pointed directly at AH.  I don't want an arguement between IL2+ and Aces High.  I am looking for thoughts on how spin behavior in this game compares with real life.  And it is not plane specific, rather generic.
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I am asking what people think of how AH handles and producing spins. I am not interested in an argument about what sim has better flight models.

The following is an edited version somebody else wrote. I present it because it says my concerns far better than I can say it. It was written with IL-2 in mind but I have found the same issue with several other sims.

In IL-2 people can fly much more on the edge because the planes rarely enter a real spin. The approach to the spin (through the stall is more difficult) causes the planes tend to overreact to the stick input, although a smooth stick setup can minimize this overreaction, it is not as smooth as it should be. The planes tend to wobble around after a short input with the rudder or elevator, just like the vertical and horizontal stabilizers are to small.

I have never saw a real plane bumping the nose up/down/right/left like it happen rather often in IL-2.

This makes aiming to a wanted area on a plane almost impossible. On the other hand it’s rather easy to hit something while rough aiming. Snapshot kills from almost impossible positions are at least as easy as kills from a perfect position(5-7o clock) to a strait flying target.

To reproduce what real pilots did, like aiming for the radiator, the gunner or the wing root, one needs a very good stick setup and much training (no real pilot had so much training).

The complete package of stick input, the response of the plane, the stall sound(very important), the hit probability, the stall/spin itself and the distance graphic need improving.

[B@tfinkV]

having stalled a few real planes deliberately with an instructor i would say that AcesHigh2 has a very resonable stall model.

not perfect, but good enough. i rarely ever have problems and often use stall manouvers to great effect during virtual combat.

S!

[NAVCAD]

As a pilot (helicopter and fixed wing) both civilian and as a Naval Aviator with over 4,000 hours flight time, in my opinion, the stall/spin characteristics of AH2 are top notch.  Hitech has done a superb job at modeling.

The enrty into a spin and the associated recovery techniques to get out of the spin very closely resemble how real aircraft would perform.  Other games/sims don't model this as well and so you get a more stable platform while being on the "ragged edge" of the performance curves.

The only other sim that I know of that models this well is the Flight Sim by Microsoft.  Check out the stalls/spins there and you'll see what I mean.

In my humble opinion of course.

NAVCAD

"Life is tough...but it's tougher when you're stupid"
John Wayne as SSGT D.L. Stryker in "Sands of Iwo Jima"

[Bucky73]

Spinning a pony in the game or my 206 in RL is very different but I still hate doing either of them. I also believe without having any actual flight time in a real pony it would be hard to compare. I would have to say (and this is without ANY RL pony experience but if there is a God I will someday) that Htc has done a fine job modelling spins in the game. When a stall or spin is performed in RL it your flight controls are VERY ineffective. Most of your control will come from your rudder due to the "P" factor.


Thats just my opinion.

[Traveler]

I’m a retired commercial pilot with 35 years as a CFII MEI , fixed wing and glider.

I think the Stall/spin model in AH2 is very accurate.  You can do power off , power on, cross controlled and accelerated stalls the aircraft response is dead on.  Mind you that stalls do need to be entered properly to prevent a wind from dropping off.   The AH2 model is at least as good as MicroSoft.  The only sim that I have seen that perhaps is better is an online Soaring simulator  Wings.

[Yeager]

what about the hammerheads?  I have always wondered why I lose rudder effectiveness midway through the top down?  Although I have never piloted a aircraft, I have seen footage of small aeroplanes doing complete hammerheads nose top to bottom.

[hitech]

Yeager: The hammer heads are very close to the real thing. I find that they are slightly harder in the game than in real life. I attribute most of it to the easy of visual clues. We are also dealing with planes that may or may not be able to do a nice one. You will have to do them at a reduced throttle setting because of loss of aileron effectiveness at the proper entry speeds.

Doing a hammer head is not as easy as it looks from the ground. You have to enter them at the correct speed ,perfectly vertical , and provide constant control input to have them work correctly.

HiTech

[hubsonfire]

Ask Stang to demo his B17 hammerhead. I think it's pretty hysterical.

[Yeager]

sounds reasonable HT.  I have had a few occasions where it seemed to work better than other occasions, especially at slower speeds.  thnx.

[FrodeMk3]

Uriah, do you fly with the stall limiter off? That makes a huge difference.

If so, I'd say that almost all of the planes' have realisic stall, with maybe the exception of the current mossie(which is in the process of getting fixed, I'm told.)

[Uriah]

It has been awhile since I tried AH.   I mostly fly EAW online and was about to put the old game away because there were only 3 of us flying online (when I could fly).  But then things picked up.  I was introduced to AH by a dedicated EAW flier.  He said it was then next best thing to EAW.  So, when EAW does end for me, I will likely switch to AH.  The concerns I posted about are my main concerns.

[Benny Moore]

I've done slow stalls in a Cessna and quite a bit of research on warbird stalling characteristics as well as general stalls and spins (I'm fascinated by them), and I think Aces High II's stalls are nearly spot-on.  IL-2's "stalls" stink, having no resemblance to any actual stall of any sort except that there is auto-rotation (oops, sorry, you didn't want to hear that, did you?).

On the other subject, the reason why input is more jumpy and jerky in simulators than in real airplanes is that commercial gaming joysticks are very, very imprecise, both due to the small size and the lack of effort put into transferring analogue inputs to digital.  True, the real F-16 has a joystick that size, but then the F-16 has a flight computer that does most of the work instead of the pilot.  Real aircraft sticks are, I'd say, a hundred times more precise.  At least in Cessnas, the controls are exactly as responsive as your automobiles.  I had no more problems with overcompensating in airplanes than I do when driving.

[ink]

all right ACES HIGH  is the first combat flight sim i ever flew
i have tried others but this one is by far the best,


   my question is this  what the heck is a hammer head?
almost 5 years and never heard the term before.



  thanx    HTC

ACES HIGH     kicks all others prettythanges

[Yeager]

Its where your flying straight up and as you start to slow down into a stall you use your rudder to swing your plane around using only yaw so that its now pointing straight down.

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by Yeager
Its where your flying straight up and as you start to slow down into a stall you use your rudder to swing your plane around using only yaw so that its now pointing straight down.

 

I do them all the time in the 190A5 (usually roping spit-dweebs). I find them fairly easy actually. One thing you must be careful with is the throttle. You need to management it carefully as you enter the hammerhead or the torque can throw you off one way or another. Tiffie used to be real easy with em too.