Author Topic: We Need Manufacturing Back in America (Read 1575 times)

swoose · « **Reply #45 on:** August 29, 2007, 10:14:43 AM »

Ok folks I hear what you are saying about stocks and shareholders ect. I know you are in the business of making as much money as you can. But how much is enough and what are you willing for others to sacrifice so you can do it?
I think companies should make the shareholders happy and try to reduce cost and run more efficiently. But the ones who really have to make it happen are the employees. The managers can manage all they want but its the guy or gal with their hands on the equipment that make it happen. They should reap part of the benefits as well as the managers. Being a member of the ones with their hands on the equipment I have a different outlook on things verses the guys sitting in the office crunching numbers all day. I just hope for your sake they decide number crunchers are not cost effective or productive. I am not being sarcastic but sympathetic.
Most employees are not lazy or non caring about what happens to their company. I work at a paper mill in North Carolina which is union. We have our share of lazy folks but most are very dedicated to making money for this company. The company makes money and we keep a job and we make money. Pretty simple concept. I have been here 30 years myself and hope to retire from here. We were recently sold to a Canadian paper company and are still waiting to see how things work out. One of the brown board paper machines that was shutdown here was making a profit but was shutdown so the mil could be sold as a fine paper mill. More folks out of work because of shareholder profits. Sorry couldn't resist.
It is a double edged sword because I want my pension to be as big as possible and I would want you to do what is necessary to do that for me. I think we can agree that if American manufacturing doesn't change we will have no manufacturing.
We have a great country and I hate to see the way it is heading. I don't know what it will take for us to wake up but I hope it happens soon.
BTW spent about 7 week all toll in the bay area. Mostly Cupertino. Nice area beautiful scenery.

Swoose

swoose · « **Reply #46 on:** August 29, 2007, 10:32:49 AM »

But recently, the Unions have become detrimental parasites. They suck the life out of both the workers and the owners for no other reason then self sustainment.
Laser,
I agree that you invest to make money and that that is what makes the world go around. What is going to happen if the trend keeps up in all the foreign manufacturing? Will you then buy and sell in whatever currency the Chinese have? We need to protect our industries and look after American so you can have the ability to buy and sell and make the money you want to make.
The statement about the unions is not new. I can't speak for other unions around the country but as I stated in a previous post I work in a union mill which was recently sold. One of the selling points was the good relationship that the unions represented here had with the company. We have always worked together to solve problems and try to make this a better company. Please don't include us in the countries overseas problems.
I enjoy sharing opinions with you guys and it's good that we can agree to disagree. Hope to see you in the cartoon skies.

Swoose

BigGun · « **Reply #47 on:** August 29, 2007, 10:52:41 AM »

I would have to say I agree alot with what Rolex stated in a few posts above.

I truely believe health care in the US is a huge problem, expensive, and don't begin to think I know what the answer.

Rolex, wasn't quite sure what you meant about a pension fund destroying the pensions of citizens. The investment earnings over a long period of time are the primary way pensions will be paid in the future.

Also, I didn't state we are in it for the quick buck, and if I did I mis-spoke. We invest for the long term, across multiple asset classes and multiple types of companies. Range is anywhere from early to late venture, or large mature public companies. The focus is also global. We put money in distressed situations to help a company turn around, or provide capital for companies trying to get a start. Instead of destroying jobs, in a lot of instances jobs are created. The total amount of institutional assets invested in private equity (long term investing) is huge on an annual basis. However, we do not make any investments without the expectation to make money. The point was (and maybe I didn't make it clearly) that in the global economy today, if a company persists in not being competitive, the long term return on the company is grim.

I also totally agree that economic theory and reality are far apart. The goal is to try and make reality match the theory as much as possible.

Rolex · « **Reply #48 on:** August 29, 2007, 11:37:49 AM »

Hi BigGun,

I wasn't implying anything specific about you or your fund. It was more of a rhetorical question, since I have seen some retirement funds be part of a group involved in a predatory relationship intended to parcel off parts of a company by terminating near-retirement employees to make it more attractive for sale.

In general, I think the "foreign threat" is overstated and distracts the public from the greater threat of true fiscal insolvency of the US in the coming generation from unresolved health care obligations.

Traveler · « **Reply #49 on:** August 29, 2007, 02:03:50 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lasersailor184
The decline of manufacturing is nothing more then a signal of the switch to a service industry. Only people who know nothing of economics would think it's a bad thing.

a service industry? you mean like a help desk in India?

Mr No Name · « **Reply #50 on:** August 29, 2007, 03:02:40 PM »

Pat Buchanan is right on the mark. US NEEDS its' manufacturing base especially in the event of war with communist china. It is no secret that communist china is building a blue water navy and their first target will be the country of Taiwan.

We should never allow a friend like Taiwan to fall under communist domination, no matter what it may cost us.

US companies can compete when they are on a LEVEL playing field. When communist china picks out specific industries then floods the market with cheap subsidized knock-offs the US company in its' sights fails then they control the market and we lose that manufacturing asset.

I know how hard my own state has been hit by textile imports from communist china. As recently as the mid to late 80's we had LITERALLY tens of thousands of jobs in textiles in my county go the way of the dinosaur. Now there are fewer than 500 people in our county employed in textiles. The economy in our area has never been extremely diverse, you either worked in textiles, the 'bomb plant' (15,000 work there still), on a farm or in the medical industry as our area is a regional medical center. If not, your business catered to those who worked in those fields.

We have lost the ability to even clothe ourselves as a nation in the event of a war with communist china. I am sure the auto industry is already in the sights of these people, just like they have taken over the electronics industry and a few others. The sad part is, we screwed ourselves out of vital jobs and industries as well as our own independence to some degree.

communist china does not compete with us equally in the areas of pay, employee benefits, working conditions, human rights, quality of products, environmental standards, product safety nor any other of major concern or REQUIREMENT for most US companies. I say Pat is dead on the mark. We need to be sure that if our companies are going to compete on the open market that they are truly competing on an even playing field. If the communist chinese (or any other) products are not manufactured under the same conditions that ours are, they should not be flooding our markets.

oboe · « **Reply #51 on:** August 29, 2007, 04:26:55 PM »

It's my understanding that Walmart has played a significant role in the move of manufacturing capacity from the U.S. to China, by continually pressuring suppliers to reduce costs. One way the suppliers accomplish this is to move manufacturing offshore - to China.

No doubt there are many causes and contributing factors though.

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #52 on:** August 29, 2007, 05:06:43 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by oboe
It's my understanding that Walmart has played a significant role in the move of manufacturing capacity from the U.S. to China, by continually pressuring suppliers to reduce costs. One way the suppliers accomplish this is to move manufacturing offshore - to China.

No doubt there are many causes and contributing factors though.

I have a suspicion that this is not what Wal-mart does. From my travels and trials of frozen pizza due to being a college student, I noticed something about them.

You could buy the same pizza from a super market and from Wal-Mart, and the the wal-mart pizza will be about .75-1.00 inches in diameter less then the exact same pizza from elsewhere.

I hypothesize that to keep making a profit from Wal-Mart sales, companies will undercut product sizes. If I had the money, time and patience, I'd do a consumer study purchasing food items from Wal-Mart and from other stores and comparing whether or not the weight or amounts listed on the cover coincide with the actual amount of food there.

I have heard from local suppliers who worked with Wal-Mart is that wal-mart would offer a fair price for their product for a year, but sell them for so low that they either had to be making no money or taking a hit in the profit category for that specific product. Then, after a year Wal-Mart reduces how much they will pay the local producer by 15-25%. The local producer would have become dependent on the money coming in from Wal-mart, would have to find someway other then ending the sale to make money.

Stringer · « **Reply #53 on:** August 29, 2007, 09:51:34 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by oboe
It's my understanding that Walmart has played a significant role in the move of manufacturing capacity from the U.S. to China, by continually pressuring suppliers to reduce costs. One way the suppliers accomplish this is to move manufacturing offshore - to China.

No doubt there are many causes and contributing factors though.

Wal Mart is the biggest retailer in the world for one reason only...........people shop there!

We (the buying public) drove manufacturing to China because we liked the cheap prices at WalMart. We sure didn't care how those prices got there.

Scherf · « **Reply #54 on:** August 30, 2007, 03:36:33 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Eagler
and workers who are happy with a bowl of rice for a 12hr day at work

unions chased manufacturing overseas

The Japanese will be shocked. They were supposed to get a bowl of rice?

Excel1 · « **Reply #55 on:** August 30, 2007, 05:27:06 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lasersailor184

Almost everyone who argues that manufacturers leaving isn't bad, are going to agree with you that tax cuts are a good idea, no matter what the time.

I agree, but its a bit more serious than the usual "i pay too much tax" whine when years of left wing ideological driven policies of high direct and indirect taxes stifles economic prosperity by strangling economic development and in particular the manufacturing export sector, and at the same time making the country about as attractive to foreign investors as herpes ; to a point where gdp per capita, and therefore standard of living slides down the oecd rankings like a rock. If thats not bad enough the clueless socialist a-holes want to "financially encourage and assist" nz businesses to set up off shore using taxpayers money .i.e. paying for the employment of foreigners in foreign countries instead of nz'ers in nz. they need to be put up against a wall and shot...and i think we still have more than enough guns to do it.

-aper- · « **Reply #56 on:** August 30, 2007, 07:15:57 AM »

The solution of the problem is very simple.
There should not be any welfare/allowance for unemployed people, but people should have a right to work. If you do not want to work you do not get money. Very simple but very effective.

Hap · « **Reply #57 on:** August 30, 2007, 07:50:15 AM »

I hope I'm wrong, and all will go well for any teenagers in the O'Club and those of you between 40 and 30 too.

I've another decade on 40, and am well aware of many of the reasons sited by posters here that show that America is in great shape economically now. Also, with the demise of the evil unions, and the evil democrats, the future should be so bright we'll have to wear shades.

I belong to a union. But if you compared what it does for the workers compared to what a good union did back in 1950 or '55 lets say, there's no comparision. It does not do much.

Why unions in the first place? Certainly they were unnecessary. Right? The wages paid to workers were "fair and balanced," before unions, right?

As to manufacturing, since we no longer make what we use, that circumstance is not a good one.

Why is that not blatantly apparant to so many here who posted otherwise? Are you sold on "doctrine?"

What do you do with people when they are no longer needed?

lazs2 · « **Reply #58 on:** August 30, 2007, 07:55:51 AM »

excel... I think that America is heading toward what you have there.. high taxes to fund socialism. It never works anywhere except for a few at the top and bottom.

lazs

Excel1 · « **Reply #59 on:** August 31, 2007, 04:37:39 AM »

your right lasz, socialism is nothing more than a power grab for control of the masses, and when applied even in moderation leads to at the least, mediocrity. its an out dated parasitic ideology that is a perverse corruption of egalitarian principles. it doesnt work and it never will work