Author Topic: difference between 109 G-14 and 109 K-4  (Read 2974 times)

Offline Charge

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Re: difference between 109 G-14 and 109 K-4
« Reply #30 on: July 23, 2008, 11:06:32 AM »
"The Fw190A8 was not an up gunned 190, the Fw190A8- R2 was an upgunned Fw190A8."

And if that is not clear enough let me rephrase it: There was no general variant (190AX or 109GX or KX) of German fighters that was "built for bomber interception" (as has been erroneously referred with 190A8).

Later variants had more Rüstsätze (field conversion) so that planes could be equipped with what ever loadout was needed for specific missions, and of course there were more options for bomber interception tasks too. In 190 series this was probably more possible due to new wing introduced with A6. It was not exactly like "plug and play" but the conversions were easy enough to be made in the units. Umrüst bausätze (/U2 etc) were bigger (factory) conversions of the earlier and some later models which eventually resulted e.g. in F and G variants of 190 along with "Mistel" and torpedo bomber variants.

"again semantics. So the Fw190 A-8 R-2 wasn't a FW 190 A-8.? It's like calling a P-47 D -11 a completly different plane than the P-47 D-40.The wing cannon upgun wasn't a bolt on addition it was a upgunned version of the A-8 with a designation. Maybe they should have called it a FW 190 A8 1/2 so theres no confusion."

Actually thats not any friggin semantics but a knowledge of what was the basic or most representative loadout for which variant. You could argue that with A7 which half of the production was delivered with R2 conversion but that would make what, 40 aircraft? If you look at the conversion types you'll notice that all Rs for A8 (actually from A6 onwards) are for bomber interception but that is because (from A5 onwards) there already was F (and for some time G) variant which took care of ground duties. The basic A8 had two MG131s and four MG151/20s and was meant a fighter. Sometimes seen with just two inboard cannons but I guess it was easier to leave the outer guns out and just plug some R under wing if needed without need to disassemble the outer wing bay to remove those 151/20s.

***

Why 30mm in 109 then? In numbers a single MK108 was more effective than a single MG151/20. How useful was it in aircombat then? Well, surely if you need to make a deflection shot its not as good as 151/20 but if you get a freebie from 6 o'c at an unalarmed target (as claimed to represent 80% of planes shot down in WW2) even one hit would be enough -and against an occasional bomber four hits could be enough +no additional drag and a small change in weight. Of course MK108 was considered a better choice for such a small fighter.

***

A pretty comprehensive listing of 190 variants (although some which I doubt ever existed):
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/best-fw-190-variant-712-19.html

-C+
"When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams can come true. Unless it's really a giant meteor hurtling to the earth which will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much screwed no matter what you wish for. Unless of course, it's death by meteorite."

Offline BaldEagl

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Re: difference between 109 G-14 and 109 K-4
« Reply #31 on: July 23, 2008, 11:20:46 AM »
Regardless whether the A-8 was upgunned and up-armored or not, the fact remains it's got big guns and good armor.  'Nuff said.
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Offline Krusty

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Re: difference between 109 G-14 and 109 K-4
« Reply #32 on: July 23, 2008, 11:26:06 AM »
It's not really "armored".... you imply it's got a chunk of metal lining it that bounces bullets off.

Really the only armor in 90% of all planes in this game is immediately behind the pilot and the forward glass on some models.

What you're talking about is "good durability" or "airframe strength" or general resiliance.

Not "armor"...

Offline Saurdaukar

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Re: difference between 109 G-14 and 109 K-4
« Reply #33 on: July 23, 2008, 11:56:24 AM »
Not "armor"...

Then what of the significant weight difference between the A8 and earlier BMW-powered 190's?  That cant all be ammo.

Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: difference between 109 G-14 and 109 K-4
« Reply #34 on: July 23, 2008, 01:13:02 PM »
I would also really like to get the G10

Here we go again! :P

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Offline Saurdaukar

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Re: difference between 109 G-14 and 109 K-4
« Reply #35 on: July 23, 2008, 06:22:20 PM »
Here we go again! :P

Add me to the list.

And me.

Offline angelsandair

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Re: difference between 109 G-14 and 109 K-4
« Reply #36 on: July 23, 2008, 06:29:59 PM »
And for you guys who are bad at shooting, go fly a 109K4 for 2 weeks and learn to shoot the 30mm tater good, then just take up a P-51 or a Jug.

I did that last night by climbing into an FM2 and I landed 4 kills and 1 assist. :D
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Offline redman555

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Re: difference between 109 G-14 and 109 K-4
« Reply #37 on: July 23, 2008, 06:58:17 PM »
yea, K-4 has more Horsepower i belive, but flys like a brick at slow speeds, G-14 turns alot better, but isnt as fast


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Offline angelsandair

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Re: difference between 109 G-14 and 109 K-4
« Reply #38 on: July 23, 2008, 06:59:34 PM »
yea, K-4 has more Horsepower i belive, but flys like a brick at slow speeds, G-14 turns alot better, but isnt as fast


-BigBOBCH

I like the fact that the 109K4 can out run just about anything on the deck and in the air. And if an La-7 hunts me down, I can just out turn him :D
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Goto Google and type in "French military victories", then hit "I'm feeling lucky".
Here lie these men on this sun scoured atoll,
The wind for their watcher, the wave for their shroud,
Where palm and pandanus shall whisper forever,
A requiem fitting for heroes

Offline Redlegs

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Re: difference between 109 G-14 and 109 K-4
« Reply #39 on: July 23, 2008, 07:38:30 PM »
Anyone realize this is an old thread?  :P
Resident Arizona Cardinals/Cincinnati Reds fan

Offline Denniss

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Re: difference between 109 G-14 and 109 K-4
« Reply #40 on: July 23, 2008, 08:16:53 PM »
@Charge:
myth: only 80 Fw 190 A-7 were build
fact: 701 were delivered between November 1943 and April 1944

Offline MiloMorai

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Re: difference between 109 G-14 and 109 K-4
« Reply #41 on: July 24, 2008, 06:45:16 AM »
This is what I have for A-7 production:

11-43 > 27
12-43 > 72
1-44 > 199
2-44 > 137
3-44 > 182
4-44 > 8

total > 625

Offline Charge

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Re: difference between 109 G-14 and 109 K-4
« Reply #42 on: July 26, 2008, 09:35:40 AM »
Thx for correction guys. So its build number was about half of A8s built.

-C+
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Offline MiloMorai

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Re: difference between 109 G-14 and 109 K-4
« Reply #43 on: July 26, 2008, 12:45:17 PM »
Charge, this is what I have on Fw production



and


Offline Charge

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Re: difference between 109 G-14 and 109 K-4
« Reply #44 on: July 26, 2008, 05:45:06 PM »
Thx Milo, I saw the corrected total somewhere and started counting and towards the end of war the sum did not seem to add up. Was there any info of what was the possible explanation?

-C+

PS. Maybe too early for me to wish they had over 5000 "brand new" A8s stacked somewhere and ponder how much one would cost today?  :D
"When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams can come true. Unless it's really a giant meteor hurtling to the earth which will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much screwed no matter what you wish for. Unless of course, it's death by meteorite."