The Dixie Chicks should be President

[TalonX]

Originally posted by SkyRock
I am sure he said artists, not celebrities!  


I think his point is also that the war in IRAQ was a bad idea in the first place and that many who spoke up early on were attacked for being unpatriotic.  Yet many still will back a policy that is flawed because of a political affiliation rather than common sense and logic.  I do not like the way the Dixie Chicks voiced their opinion.  I think it showed a lack of class.

 

I agree.  The Dixie Traitors chose the wrong method, in the wrong place.  We can argue and fight in the "family", but you don't diss your president in another country (and stealing a brilliant phrase) pandering to a crowd.

It matters not to me, in this context, whether this was the worst idea or the best idea in history (ie, the war in Iraq).   I haven't made that value judgement in this thread.  I just reacted to the moronic, unpatriotic suggestion that the Dixie Traitors should be anything but what they are..........and certainly not the moral or political compass of the United States of America.

SkyRock

[Gunthr]

Do you think that a democratic IRAQ can exists in the crib of radical fundamentalism? - SkyRock

i don't think a middle eastern democracy will look like our democracy here, but yes.  Turkey, Pakistan,Iran, and Israel, tho not all alike, are democracies of a kind in the middle east.

A better question is do I think an Iraq that is an ally to the USA can exist in the middle east.  Yes, I believe that.

Leadpig wants to stay and fight to achieve that.  Do you, SkyRock?

[TalonX]

That democracy works everywhere.   It's just hard to fathom that free choice and elections does not appeal to everyone on earth.

It doesn't.

I am convinced these people prefer the dictatorships (as some countries enjoy the monarchies).   I suspect the best bet is to install a beneficial dictator, then depart.

[bj229r]

Unfortunately it's too late to have this argument. (Though that doesn't stop anyone)--We are there, and as Colin Powell told President Bush "You break it, you bought it"  We leave now we GIVE Iraq to Iran, which has been Iran's plan all along---salamanders are responsible for untold # of GI deaths, and our leaving justifies their actions

[LEADPIG]

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Now that's some real respect right there. And for a former soldier too. From a guy who said he was done.

Yes i get his point he was a soldier, i respect that, i'm not taking into account he was a soldier here, strictly human being to human being if he had of made that point in a more constructive way, i might have said something nicer.

Btw i thought you were done Virgil Hilts, don't worry about me, if you want to speak, politics, or Govn't policy, like Tango, or Gunthr, or any of the other nice gentleman here, fine, otherwise leave me alone. Thank you

[LEADPIG]

Originally posted by bj229r
Unfortunately it's too late to have this argument. (Though that doesn't stop anyone)--We are there, and as Colin Powell told President Bush "You break it, you bought it"  We leave now we GIVE Iraq to Iran, which has been Iran's plan all along---salamanders are responsible for untold # of GI deaths, and our leaving justifies their actions

So true..... Sad but True, Unfortunately Sir...

[LEADPIG]

Originally posted by TalonX
That democracy works everywhere.   It's just hard to fathom that free choice and elections does not appeal to everyone on earth.

It doesn't.

I am convinced these people prefer the dictatorships (as some countries enjoy the monarchies).   I suspect the best bet is to install a beneficial dictator, then depart.

I sometimes think that America will destroy itself trying to help and repair other countries. I believe that America is not the worlds keeper, unfortunately we live in a world where turmoil is occuring in places that we need resource wise. This may sound harsh, but if America did not need oil from any of those countries, and none of them were directly threatening us, i wouldn't have a problem of staying out of that area. As a human being it would hurt but i'd have to do it.  America, not everybody wants to live like us....realize that, we are in a world of many varying cultures, no one's right, no one's wrong. Only the creator of this place can make that judgement, and even he respects our free will.

[Shuckins]

Well, let's examine the current situation in Iraq.

Some suicide bombings still occurring...yet the Kurdish north is almost totally pacified.  Tribal leaders and sheiks are working closely with U.S. forces to control terrorists.....with success so marked that American forces are being withdrawn from the area and sent to beef up our presence elsewhere.

Al Qaeda has gone so far over the line with the bombing of innocent civilians even the hardened thugs who used to support Saddam Hussein have become appalled.  Ex- Baathist members and many Sunni muslims in the Baghdad area are cooperating with our forces in an effort to evict these foreign born terrorists from Iraq.  If it were not for the continued interference from Iran much of the violence would have already been eradicated.

While some congressional leaders have already labeled the "Surge" a failure, General Patraeus has yet to issue his report has yet to issue his report.  Apparently, it isn't going to be nearly as negative as some think, and more positive that others would like.  According to some sources, it will reveal considerable success in curbing terrorist activity in central Iraq.

However, every silver lining has a cloud.  The Iraqi government is a mess, and isn't apt to improve in the immediate future.  Yet, I'm an optimist.  I like to believe that the Iraqi people desire peace and normalcy so furvently that they will eventually find a way to cooperate in spite of their differences and establish a viable democratic system.....of a distinctly Middle Eastern flavor.

The Dixie Chits .  Spoiled, narcicisstic Daddy's girls.

[Shuckins]

Leadpig, some cultures ARE superior to others.  I say without fear of contradiction that western culture, with it's emphasis on human rights, free elections, popular sovereignty, and self-determination are far superior to anything now extant in the Middle and Far East, save for those nations whose governments and cultures were forever changed, for the better, by contact with western democratic nations.

While that contact was not always benevolent in nature, it has proved, over time, to have been largely beneficial.  By contrast, contact with communistic and middle eastern systems has been largely negative in nature, and has merely served to reproduce brutal and moribund clones of these master systems.

I reiterate, all cultures are not created equal.

[Tango]

Originally posted by SkyRock
That policy was flawed too, this dates way back.  As far as the right thing to do, there are many of those things we aren't doing, and maybe should try to do more often.  These, "moral" or "ethical" stances... ie "right things to do", should always be developed from a viewpoint to error on the side of peace.  

Easy enough if it was a democratic nation, but when you have a dictatorship/fanatics constantly preparing for war and its known they will use ANY weapon they can get, then I think a big stick is in order.

The deal is we need to stop cleaning up war and unleash the military's might on our enemy [short of nukes] when it comes to a shooting war. War is a terrible and ugly thing [any soldier thats seen it will tell you that] and it should be a last resort, but when it starts, finish it with a devastating blow so they know they were beaten and wouldn't want it to happen again. Thats why the Germans and Japanese are very cautious about using thier military. They've seen the results of war.

[LEADPIG]

To you Shuckins they're equal.  Don't look at it from your perspective, try to look at from no perspective at all. To them were not, they don't want to be like us, why, they're not us. Maybe they like to kill each other, maybe they like to live in a world of religiuos violence and turmoil. Maybe if there daughter's commit a family shame, maybe they like to kill them, who knows. Not up to me to say, truth is, it's not up to anyone, but each of us and our own lifes. I can respect their way, i don't care, just don't bother me i have no problem, is how i look at it. The world is going to hell in a hand basket, always will be, to the end. It should be, this is not a reality of perfection, never will be, utopia is not possible in this life, that goes with governments and cultures. I don't look at anybodies culture and govn't being superior including ours, it just is what it is. Would i want to live anyplace else? nope. America's great, as of now to me it's the best we got.
I don't put my faith in any system on this earth, that has any manmade influence to it, i just put up with it.

Good point though

[Tango]

But Pig, they want to make the WHOLE WORLD Islamic. If you don't convert then they will try to kill you.

Of course Bolo6 will come in and try to say thats not true but its in thier holy book.

[LEADPIG]

Originally posted by Tango
But Pig, they want to make the WHOLE WORLD Islamic. If you don't convert then they will try to kill you.

Of course Bolo6 will come in and try to say thats not true but its in thier holy book.

I said in the above comment i don't care what they do, i don't care if they kill each other, it's not up to me or America to bestow them with the mantle of democratic freedom, they don't want it, fine with me. Just don't come over here and try that crap here, they'd be impinging on my right to live how i want, right or wrong, then they must die. Preferably a slow horrible death, while i stare into their eyes.

Oh and screw the holy book, those terrorist aren't following that totally anyway, they're perverting it for their own needs, hell christians and every religion in existence does that.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by LEADPIG
Don't look at it from your perspective, try to look at from no perspective at all.

You're a riot!:rofl

[LEADPIG]

Originally posted by Shuckins
Well, let's examine the current situation in Iraq.

Some suicide bombings still occurring...yet the Kurdish north is almost totally pacified.  Tribal leaders and sheiks are working closely with U.S. forces to control terrorists.....with success so marked that American forces are being withdrawn from the area and sent to beef up our presence elsewhere.

Al Qaeda has gone so far over the line with the bombing of innocent civilians even the hardened thugs who used to support Saddam Hussein have become appalled.  Ex- Baathist members and many Sunni muslims in the Baghdad area are cooperating with our forces in an effort to evict these foreign born terrorists from Iraq.  If it were not for the continued interference from Iran much of the violence would have already been eradicated.

While some congressional leaders have already labeled the "Surge" a failure, General Patraeus has yet to issue his report has yet to issue his report.  Apparently, it isn't going to be nearly as negative as some think, and more positive that others would like.  According to some sources, it will reveal considerable success in curbing terrorist activity in central Iraq.

However, every silver lining has a cloud.  The Iraqi government is a mess, and isn't apt to improve in the immediate future.  Yet, I'm an optimist.  I like to believe that the Iraqi people desire peace and normalcy so furvently that they will eventually find a way to cooperate in spite of their differences and establish a viable democratic system.....of a distinctly Middle Eastern flavor.

The Dixie Chits .  Spoiled, narcicisstic Daddy's girls.

  I look at it this way Shuckins, we can clean up, every terrororist in Iraq. Declare it safe and come home and sit on the toilet and some nut will blow that up. Is it possible to clean all terrorist in Iraq by killing them, probably not, cause you'll never know if you've gotten them all untill something happens, or nothing happens. At least in WW2 we had some surrender  documents and we knew who we were dealing with. Don't know that here. This is a geurilla war, a tank, a cruise missile, and a artillery gun, hell most of the military's main tactics for fighting war are useless against these people. Reminds me of when Europeans first came to the new world and started trying to fight the indians. The Europeans were doing that style of fighting where they would all stand in a line in bright outfits and shoot at each other all gentleman like. The Indians were'nt playing that game though, they were wearing camoflauge, and hiding behind tree's and bushes, just popping people left and right. Hell they were hurting the Europeans even though they had firearms. They got smart though and started fighting how the Indians were, and thus you have the Army's current stealth fighting style. We better do that in Iraq or we won't be doing it long.