Author Topic: The Dixie Chicks should be President  (Read 6300 times)

Offline SkyRock

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« Reply #150 on: September 07, 2007, 12:43:40 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Tango
1 - So attacking our planes that were patroling the no-fly zone is not an act of war? That in itself is reason enough to end the cease fire. WMDs or not.

2 - Saddam wanted nothing more than more power and oil. He proved that by invading Kuwait. He was a threat to our Allies over there. Kuwaitis celebrating after we invaded and defeated his army proved that. Not to mention his own people. I have a nephew who spent a tour in Northern Iraq with the Kurds and he said they are extremely gratful to us.

3 - Yes, he was supporting terrorism. He was giving money to Palestinian suicide bombers families who were killing innocent people in Israel. Israel is one of our closest allies in the ME. Reports dating back to the Clinton administration even were saying that he was and that he was looking for and striving for nukes. Why the anti-war activists seem to forget this to put the blame on Bush saying HE lied and was simply looking for an excuse to go into Iraq baffles me. The attacks on our air patrols would have been enough excuse to end the cease fire if that was true. With the info he had [which goes back several years BEFORE he was even in office] showed that there was evidence. There was even an Iraqi general who defected that stated this as well.

Bro, vote Republican and relieve us all from realizing that  you are trying to have an intellegent conversation about policy!!

F Repubs
FDems
and F all those who reside therein!:aok

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Offline MORAY37

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« Reply #151 on: September 07, 2007, 01:14:44 AM »
#1.  Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11.  People need to stop quoting an administration lie.  They've done everything possible to make us think Saddam had something to do with it... He didn't.  Get over it.  The guy who did, Osama, yeah, we let him get away, a total of three times.  

#2.  We aren't leaving Iraq anytime soon.  This fact has made us an even bigger target than pre- 911.  You are less safe today than you were yesterday.

#3.  You are now fighting an enemy that has no face, no uniform, no discernable stance on anything, except its' stated hate of the West.  It is a fight which simply cannot be won.  You can try all you want, send all of our troops, all of our technology.... you can beat and torture all you want (making a mockery of what we hold dear) and you will get nowhere.  The simple truth is, like at the travelling circus,  you can't play "whack-a-mole" and actually win... whenever you hit one mole, another two pop up.  We will mire ourselves in the region, and lose vast amounts of manpower, money and international capital... for what?  Iraq doesn't want to become a democracy, no matter how much we tell them they should. They DON'T want your life anymore than you want theirs shoved down your throat.  At least, not the Iraqis that are left in the country, the upper and middle classes have all fled the country.  In case anyone needs a rehash:  A stable democracy requires a STRONG, INFORMED middle class.

We cannot win in either case...stay or leave.  There was a time period where we could have... but that is long gone.


#4.  When did this country get so stupid and SCARED.?  Was anyone really that surprised about 9-11?  They tried 5 times prior to take the towers down for crying out loud.  Woe to us, we didn't see it coming.?  Our behavior in the past 5 years is that of a pestulent, scared child.  Attack everything and everyone....that's all I tend to see everyone propose... turn the ME into a glass wasteland.... Do You realize how incredibly weak and stupid that sounds???  I was incredulous when Twitt Romney actually advocated a nuclear first strike option PUBLICALLY.  You may have that option, but you don't let the genie out of the bottle.  Bullies, scared bullies, always advocate attack.

#5.  How do we fix it?  We use our good old american inginuity, and get our rear ends off of oil.  We start NOW.... we become the first, we get it done.  Once we don't give a crap about their oil...we're out of there.  Once we're out of there, they go back to fighting each other.  Whatever you think the reason is now.... Oil is and has always been the key fact we care about anything in the middle east.  We tighten up the borders, while still maintaining some semblance of America.  We weather any attack that comes our way, and punish those that are directly responsible.  We stop exporting weapons to any damn country that shows us a fistfull of money. This country is the largest exporter of weapons on the planet...We've served as a destabilizing influence in EVERY regional conflict in the past 50 years. In short WE WORRY ABOUT US... this country.... this crumbling infrastructure... this obesity laden population without reliable access to healthcare.  In case anyone failed to notice... New Orleans... a major metropolitan US city... still not fixed.  Bridges collapsing.  Steam pipes in new york... from the 1890's, blowing out.  One BILLION dollars a day going to Iraq, and rebuilding some ******* country we had no reason to destroy in the first place.  (By the way, that's 5 dollars a day, out of every US citizen's pocket, going to that country. $1,825 per year, for each and every citizen of this country.)

And my damn power lines are still above ground in Florida.  

Can we use our damn heads?
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Offline MORAY37

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« Reply #152 on: September 07, 2007, 01:41:53 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
skyrock... what you want to do is surrender and then... to make up for that you want to.... to what?   "hunt em down"?

Oh yeah.. that would work.    When the 9/11 happened and the discussion started I was the first to say that we should have simply made up a picture book...

"The big Book of Terrorists" and.. hunted em down and crossed their picture out as they "disapeared".

I now realize that this is beyond folly in a country/media that thinks offering a hot dog to a prisoner is torture beyond all conception.

The new york times and cnn and all the democrats would come unglued if they ever found out that we were even looking for terrorists and....

How would we do it?  send in 5 guys to iran to knock on doors?   sheesh... we couldn't even get it right in mogandishu where the population was starved and stupid and no one even noticed if you killed a few thousand...

so what do we do?  send a smart bomb?   but wait... no matter what.. the new york times will be showing dead babies and saying that what we hit was the biggest orphanage on the planet...

nope... we have to go there and have a real presence I am afraid... we simply have no choice.

lazs



Skyrock is not advocating running away.  He is advocating fighting them in a way that makes them look over their shoulders, that they don't know who to trust. It's an intelligence based attack strategy rather than a boots on the ground strategy...which is already failing miserably.  This breaks their C+C (command and control).  You also gain the help of the non-islamofascists who happen to be muslim...something we desperately need if we have ANY hope of ever gaining an advantage over this situation.  Just as a reminder...only a small portion of muslims want to harm Westerners.... keep that firmly in mind.  Also, I would remind you that we live in a country that accepts religious freedom and rejects persecution for religious beliefs above just about all else, besides rigth to bear arms, that is.  

Mogadishu was infested with two things... guns and crazed lunatics on drugs.  The humanitarian effort was never going to succeed there.  

"Offering a hotdog to a prisoner" is not torture.  Stripping him down, forcing him to mount another man's rear or be bitten by a snarling german shepard is...especially when he can't be proven or charged with a crime, something often forgotten about Abu Gahraib.  Rounding up people off the street, denying them habeous corpus, then stripping them of their human rights and dignity (which we supposedly hold above all else) simply on suspicion...  We as a nation are supposedly above this sort of thing.
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Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #153 on: September 07, 2007, 08:42:25 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by MORAY37
"Offering a hotdog to a prisoner" is not torture.  


It is if it's pork...
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #154 on: September 07, 2007, 08:54:39 AM »
whatever moray..  if letting a dog bite em is the main topic on ours and the world news for weeks... imagine a real effort to root out the insurgents or a real bombing campaign.

It is fine that you want to get rid of the troops but...call it what it is... snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory...it is surrender.

You say we need to what?  to fight smarter?  how do we do that from your computer in florida?   you do need boots on the ground...ours or ours and the iraqis.  

Say what you want but that is all that will work.. you are advocating...well... I don't know.. you are real short on solutions but.. it seems you and skyrock would have just pulled out of korea once the major battles had been won.  

What good will pulling out of iraq now do?

The soldiers aren't wanting that.... the generals don't want it...  the money being spent is keeping the democrats from starting even more socialist programs that simply grow and grow forever.   The less money the government has to spend the better for all of us.  

I would check a box on my taxes that said "would you like to have your taxes incinerated instead of letting us decide how to spend them?"

So someone... tell me how leaving is not surrendering?  What will it be called in the future?   We won in vietnam.. never lost a battle... how is it percieved by you and the world?

What is your plan exactly?   I don't see anything at all by the surrendermonkeys... maybe you guys can post a link to the surrender strategy for making the planet a better place?

lazs

Offline MORAY37

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« Reply #155 on: September 07, 2007, 09:28:28 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
whatever moray..  if letting a dog bite em is the main topic on ours and the world news for weeks... imagine a real effort to root out the insurgents or a real bombing campaign.

It is fine that you want to get rid of the troops but...call it what it is... snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory...it is surrender.

You say we need to what?  to fight smarter?  how do we do that from your computer in florida?   you do need boots on the ground...ours or ours and the iraqis.  

Say what you want but that is all that will work.. you are advocating...well... I don't know.. you are real short on solutions but.. it seems you and skyrock would have just pulled out of korea once the major battles had been won.  

What good will pulling out of iraq now do?

The soldiers aren't wanting that.... the generals don't want it...  the money being spent is keeping the democrats from starting even more socialist programs that simply grow and grow forever.   The less money the government has to spend the better for all of us.  

I would check a box on my taxes that said "would you like to have your taxes incinerated instead of letting us decide how to spend them?"

So someone... tell me how leaving is not surrendering?  What will it be called in the future?   We won in vietnam.. never lost a battle... how is it percieved by you and the world?

What is your plan exactly?   I don't see anything at all by the surrendermonkeys... maybe you guys can post a link to the surrender strategy for making the planet a better place?

lazs


Laz, as par for the course, you don't actually read and comprehend a post.  I'm not advocating running away, we can't now.  Our future is now inexorably tied to that craphole.  Your assignment is to go back through my post and think it over again, due on monday.

Also, you stated the troops don't want out of Iraq..they don't want out so badly, the services have the highest suicide rate in history.  As well, the desertion rate is closing in on draft era vietnam...in a volunteer army.

Not to mention this...This war has lasted 1 1/2 times longer than World War 2.... and can you tell me we've gained anything?  Baghdad is still not secured for god's sake.  Generals are warning all over that the military is stetched so thin, it will, by April, be unable to project force anywhere else.  I wonder which Fox news affiliate doesn't tell you these things... because they are in released public reports to congress.

And yes, I advocate fighting smarter.  This "dumb" way only seems to give johnny mop on the head more targets to pick from.
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Offline MORAY37

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« Reply #156 on: September 07, 2007, 09:34:07 AM »
And Laz..check your history in the non revisionist books.  We didn't win in Korea.  We just about did, until the chinese kicked our tulips all the way back to the demilitarized zone.  Technically, we are still in a war with North Korea.
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Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #157 on: September 07, 2007, 11:56:05 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by MORAY37
And Laz..check your history in the non revisionist books.  We didn't win in Korea.  We just about did, until the chinese kicked our tulips all the way back to the demilitarized zone.  Technically, we are still in a war with North Korea.


Since we started out with only about 50 sq miles outside Pusan and ended up at the 38th, saving So Korea, I'd say we did well.
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Offline john9001

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« Reply #158 on: September 07, 2007, 12:58:47 PM »
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Originally posted by MORAY37
We didn't win in Korea.  We just about did, until the chinese kicked our tulips all the way back to the demilitarized zone.  Technically, we are still in a war with North Korea.


you can thank "lets fight to not win" Truman for that.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #159 on: September 07, 2007, 02:22:05 PM »
moray.. again.. you accuse me of what you do and...  at least I have content... you have nothing.

platitudes and slogans are not tactics.   Your solution is to "fight smarter"

please explain what that is.  what your  plan is.   you have till monday to turn in your assignment.

I have skimmed your posts for content and they put me to sleep with the lack of content.   I could listen to a menopausal democrat congressman or senator and get as much "solution"

lazs

Offline MORAY37

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« Reply #160 on: September 07, 2007, 03:19:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
moray.. again.. you accuse me of what you do and...  at least I have content... you have nothing.

platitudes and slogans are not tactics.   Your solution is to "fight smarter"

please explain what that is.  what your  plan is.   you have till monday to turn in your assignment.

I have skimmed your posts for content and they put me to sleep with the lack of content.   I could listen to a menopausal democrat congressman or senator and get as much "solution"

lazs

Solution set for quoted problems.

#1.  Stop selling arms to the planet.  The United States is the single largest exporter of military hardware on the planet.  For god's sake, most of the time they're shooting our own bullets back at us.  We supplied EVERY country in the Middle East with arms at one time or another...is that really so hard to understand why some of them don't like us anymore?  It's like saying Great Britain sold us 100 HK91's, and then sold Mexico 5000 Centurion MBT's.  We'd be pissed...so are some of them.

#2.  Get off oil.  We get off oil (which can be done, we're just too damn lazy to take a hit on our economy) within two decades nd show the world we lead by example.  We get the hell out of the middle east... why?  Because they don't want us there...no more than we want them here.  If say, Canadian troops were walking down your street, guns drawn at the standbye, what the hell would you do?  I'd guess, and it's only a guess, that 3/4 of the insurgency is people like you and me that see foreign troops in their homes everyday, and want them gone...not the dedicated fundamentalists.  Face it... our troops being there this long, HAVE MADE IT WORSE.  What, we lost 50, a hundred in the actual invasion of iraq....and now thousands in the "occupation".  You do the math on that one.  

3.  Fix this damn country...stop rebuilding theirs.  Japan loved it when we rebuilt their country, remember?  Anyone looking around?  Bridges falling down.  Pipes laid in the 1890's are the norm in New York City. Brownouts, in the west, with the electrical grid in constant threat (a circa 1940's grid, BTW) of shutting down with overuse.  New Orleans.  Infrastructure stability is at an all time low, with most of it being put in place in the 1920's and 30's.  We always put off making this country better, while we funnel money into every elses.  It's like giving your neighbors money for their roof, while the electricity and water are shut off in yours.  Remodernizing this country would reap the benefits that Japan saw in just under 20 years.

4.  Target enemies in a source specific way.  Intelligence plays a large part in this with roving teams under deep cover targetting active cells.  The worst thing you can possibly do in a guerrilla war is give the enemy easier and softer targets.  We do both, simply by putting 400,000 of them in one spot.  Remember Libya sponsoring terror in the 80's?  Yeah that went away pretty damn quick after we knocked out specific targets surgically.  YOU DON'T need 400,000 troops there, in Iraq.  The only reason we put them there is Bush thinks he's been talking to God, and God told him to start another crusade.  Of course there will be an attack here and there... but we can't go invade somebody just because small groups hurt us.  Are you directly responsible for your neighbor if he goes to Spain and blows up a bus?  No.  Is a country responsible for the conduct of a few idiots who think Allah told them to kill us?  No.  (case in point, we didn't invade Saudi Arabia did we?)

Nothing will change though.  Money makes the world go round.  Haliburton and the defense industry makes and changes the policy of administrations now.  Straight from Eisenhower:

 "We face a hostile ideology global in scope, atheistic in character, ruthless in purpose and insidious in method..."  "we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex... Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together."

Sounds almost prophetic.
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Offline MORAY37

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« Reply #161 on: September 07, 2007, 03:27:09 PM »
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Originally posted by john9001
you can thank "lets fight to not win" Truman for that.
o

John, not much anyone can do when a million chinese start running south.  We fought our way all the way up to Pyongyang and the Chinese border...In a war versus "communism"...who woulda thunk the chinese might not've liked that idea?  I'm sure your response on our answer to the chinese, will hinge on nuclear deployment... then I'll laugh.  Russia had already stated any use of nuclear force in Korea would relegate tacit understanding that Russia would retaliate on the continental USA.  So, we'd all be dead now, if that's the way it went.

Another idiot move by this country...always believing no one else can do anything about what we do.
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Offline john9001

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« Reply #162 on: September 07, 2007, 03:47:36 PM »
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Originally posted by MORAY37
o

John, not much anyone can do when a million chinese start running south.  We fought our way all the way up to Pyongyang and the Chinese border...In a war versus "communism"...who woulda thunk the chinese might not've liked that idea?  I'm sure your response on our answer to the chinese, will hinge on nuclear deployment... then I'll laugh.  Russia had already stated any use of nuclear force in Korea would relegate tacit understanding that Russia would retaliate on the continental USA.  So, we'd all be dead now, if that's the way it went.

Another idiot move by this country...always believing no one else can do anything about what we do.


the US could have blown the bridges, but Truman said, "you can only bomb the southern half of the bridge", and then Johnson/McNamara followed the Truman doctrine  of "fight not to win" in Vietnam.

Offline john9001

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« Reply #163 on: September 07, 2007, 03:49:58 PM »
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Originally posted by MORAY37
Solution set for quoted problems.

#1.  Stop selling arms to the planet.  The United States is the single largest exporter of military hardware on the planet.  For god's sake, most of the time they're shooting our own bullets back at us.  We supplied EVERY country in the Middle East with arms at one time or another...is that really so hard to understand why some of them don't like us anymore?  It's like saying Great Britain sold us 100 HK91's, and then sold Mexico 5000 Centurion MBT's.  We'd be pissed...so are some of them.
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wow, i did not know the US made AK47's, that is ground breaking news.




:O :O

Offline Sixpence

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« Reply #164 on: September 07, 2007, 03:55:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
wow, i did not know the US made AK47's, that is ground breaking news.




:O :O


Careful where you go with that, we supplied Iraq with thousands of ak47's that are unaccounted for. We may not have made, but we sure as hell supplied them
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